One Stop Marketing Shop with Gary Boomershine
The real estate business is about being in front of sellers, making offers and raising money, building a better team, and then going into the next market. Real estate investors got into this business for passive income, wealth building, and freedom of time. However, everybody gets stuck in the muck by going into all these directions just to make things happen and close some deals. In this episode, Gary Boomershire introduces the concept of joining forces with a pro that’s going to take some of the workloads off of you in a lot of different areas. Gary is a real estate investor and entrepreneur who has built a two-time Inc. 5000 company called REIvault, which helps real estate investors scale and escape their business by providing “shared services” and acting as a marketing and back office operations. He spends his focus on marketing and the plan, cost, and outline that is effectively working on real estate deals. —
Gary Boomershine, my friend and longtime mastermind, we’ve met a long time ago in CG. That was a great time in my life. I learned an awful lot. I met some of the people I still talk to, plan with and strategize with to this day, case in point. Masterminds are a great way to make lifetime friendships. We don’t see each other every day or anything, but we pick up right where we left off when we meet. We know each other well. Those masterminds can get intense and you get to know people well. There are a lot of good guys in those rooms. I’d like you to go to TaxFreeFuture.com. If you do not have a tax-deferred or tax-free environment in which to grow your retirement or your finances, then you’re missing out on a huge portion. Go to their website and learn how to grow your business tax-free or tax-deferred. You won’t believe what your financial advisors are not telling you because they don’t get paid to tell you. That’s where they’re making all their money. Gary Boomershine, how are you doing?
Mitch, it is awesome. Thank you for inviting me. I know we’ve been talking about doing this together. I cannot tell you how many people asked me about creative real estate and who is the true trainer out there. I cannot tell you how many times I mentioned your name. In real estate, you think of like, “This market’s constantly turning.” There are eight doors. Two of them lead to life-changing opportunities. Six of them could be trapdoors and rabbit holes. The value of being able to find those two doors. You were talking about masterminds and I’m in eight masterminds. I am such a believer. What we’re going to talk about, a lot of the ideas came up from CG.
You came up with this idea in the mastermind and a lot of the people that got involved at the time were in that mastermind because it was a great idea. We’re going to talk about joining forces with a pro that’s going to take some of the workloads off of you in a lot of different areas. It’s a unique idea. I haven’t seen it anyplace else. It’s a collective of investors saying, “Why are we all doing this? Why aren’t we all doing the same thing? Why don’t we put one team together and share it?” Is that right?
That’s exactly right. Specifically, this market is for real estate, especially if we’re wholesaling or finding creative deals. This is an off-market, meaning you’ve got to go direct to the seller. You’re not finding deals on the MLS like we were long ago. There are deals depending upon the strategy, but there’s a massive amount of money to be made going directly to the seller. There are a lot of moving parts. Direct mail, doing Facebook and pay-per-click, doing bandit signs and doing outbound cold calling. When we were at CG, the Collective Genius Mastermind, all of us were 110 people, all seven-figure investors and they’re all talking about, “Here’s the magic postcard, here’s the magic list.” Podio came from Joe McCall. Sean Terry was like, “Here’s what you do.” I said, “The thing is all of us have to go do this. Our business is being in front of sellers, making offers and raising money. Building a better team and then going into the next market. That’s what we got into this business for, specifically around passive income. Wealth building, freedom of time and then everybody got stuck in the muck. Why don’t we build one team?” My background is unique. I’ve been doing real estate full-time since 2004. I come from a technology background as well. I built it and a couple of years later, we’ve done over 27 million pieces of direct mail. We’ve been able to track the response rate. We know what works better than anybody in the country, including the real estate agent niche. We have done over 314,000 outbound calls to sellers on behalf of our members because we’ve got a trained sales ninja phone team that’s scripted well. We do all this for about the cost of one resource. For less than $10 an hour, you can outsource to a team of experts at managing, marketing, getting the phone to ring, doing outbound text messages and ringless voicemail and then a phone team that’s screening, qualifying and scheduling appointments. It’s been a lot of fun. It’s been a lot of work. There are a lot of moving parts, but I’m passionate about that.
How do you price this? I will preface this by we’re at the end of the month and they’ve got the right to change their price, adjust their price or whatever because some of these things will be archived for months, if not years. We’re talking about price now, but how do you price this?
I’m going to give a little backstory around that. It was Sean Terry that gave me the idea at CG. Originally, I didn’t know how to price it. Like many of us it’s like, “I’ve got this thing. If you cover the cost of marketing, we’ll take a percentage of the profits.” That was the original idea and what we were doing for the first 60 people. It was great. We were getting nice checks on the profits, but it was hard to track. Sean Terry came up and I was asking him at CG and he goes, “If you could do all of this, if you could do everything, all the marketing, if you could guarantee the lowest cost mail prices because of the volume. If you could put in the phone team that nobody had to hire, train and more importantly manage and you could do it all for the cost of one VA, one virtual assistant for less than $10 an hour. You’d have the right people to come to join you.” I had a number of people that helped and that’s how we do it. For the cost of about $10 an hour, assuming you were going to hire somebody full-time, you can get the equivalent of a 40-person trained expert marketing and sales team doing the work to free you up so you can truly do the moneymaking activities.
You’re doing these mailings and everything. Where do you get the list from? Who are you mailing?
This came from Cris Chico. Cris Chico came to me in 2013 and he found a secret list that we’re still using now. It’s called our invisible list. We have two proprietary mailing list. It’s called invisible because a couple of our members said this is invisible to our competition. It’s because of our massive volume. We’re buying over almost two million property records a month. The invisible list, there are 120 million houses on the public record. What we have found is there are about eighteen million of those properties, about 10% that are inherited-type properties, mostly free and clear, mostly older sellers. Properties that need a ton of work. That’s been incredibly responsive. Most people cannot get this list. We have to go directly to a data center. We have to do what Richter does on his list on a scoring algorithm. For instance, last sale date is a big deal. Most people that are going out the list source, they’re putting in the last sale date, they’ll go get an absentee list and they’ll say, “Any properties before 2008.” Most of these gems don’t have a sale date so we’ll score that higher and then we’re getting a bunch of other things, but the inherited property has been a big list. We also have another one called shipwrecked and that’s code violations, recently deceased. That’s amazing, the recently deceased. It’s a probate lead. We do this on behalf of our members. The six Ms of marketing are market, message, media, multiple, months and money.CLICK TO TWEET They may also have their own mailing lists. Maybe they’re using Richter. A lot of people are using Richter’s lists. We’ve got some real high-volume people that are doing $20,000, $30,000 a month of marketing, sending out 40,000 to 60,000 postcards and letters. They may have Richter’s list and they’ll give that to us. We manage it. We do the cleanup, we get rid of all the duplicates. All of the minutiae that real estate investors should not be doing, we have a team that does that in their sleep.
I learned a new list that I didn’t hear before that you might be interested in. You may already know about it. 83% of the people that file for a loan modification end up losing their house in the next eighteen months. That’s an interesting statistic. You don’t think about some of those things, loan modifications. I don’t know if they’re as prevalent as they used to be because everybody figured out that you’d go to get a loan modification and no one wanted it to work. The person who needed the loan. No one wanted it to work.
The credit bureau data is one of the sources we use for scoring because there are a couple of economic indicators that are interesting. As you see people that have houses that have equity, their score has dropped substantially. That’s another indication. Trying to go after loan mods is a little tough in terms of how you find the list. It’s all about who has the data and can you get that data cheap. At the end of the day, what we’re finding is that the most important it’s the cost per deal. What is the cost per deal? What is your profit per deal? A lot of people are trying to find the little fairy dust list. It doesn’t totally exist. If you’re in a market, let’s say you’re in San Antonio and you’re able to pick up a property for $2,100 in marketing. That’s probably 6,000 postcards and you’re able to do that without even thinking about it. It drives enough leads. You’re in front of let’s say fifteen sellers. Maybe you have 45 leads that come in. You end up with about fifteen that are net where sellers say, “Yes, I’m happy. I want to sell,” and then you end up getting one or two of those deals right out the gate. It’s a no brainer.
When I’m borrowing my private money, I borrow an extra $2,000 to reimburse me for my cost of advertising. I figured out it averages around $2,000 per house to find the person who’s that motivated. Interesting enough, we have the same number because I was going to ask you. I see people trying to do SEO and all this stuff and they’re spinning $4,000 and $5,000 of conversion and it’s too much. It’s too high. We’ve tried a lot of stuff like everybody and we went out to go get our website, CashForHouses.net and SEO it up to the first page. We did and we were number three. It’s a nice position. It’s right in the middle of the page. It’s good. The whole thing sucked. It costs about $35,000 to get there over a period of time, which sucked. What happened was apparently people who go to the internet to sell their house, they call everybody on the first two pages. I’m going into the house and there are four people coming out. I’m coming out of the house, there are three people coming in. I paid $35 to get in a war with these people that are paying way too much. Ultimately, the house would sell for like, “Who is this investor?” because they’re going to be losing their butt here. They’re going to be out of business in no time. I don’t know who they are. I should probably think California, Gary.
You’ve been around a long time. The real estate market, there are cycles. Typically, a seven to eight-year cycle. We’re at the end of the euphoric phase of the cycle. What worked a few years ago doesn’t necessarily work now. That was one of the reasons I’m like, “If we could have that one team and we could also be communicating, we would be able to shift with the market.” One of the things we’re doing, we have a tight community where people are sharing because none of us are competitive. It’s a semi-exclusive offering where once we have people and a market becomes locked up, we don’t put anybody else into that market. People are sharing and one of the things we’re finding is people are realizing that they also need to adjust their sales tactics. Going in and making a single offer isn’t as effective as now being able to make the multiple offers. I know you’ve been teaching that forever, but just little things. The pay-per-click and SEO, we’re finding the cost per deal is a lot higher because it’s competitive. Everybody’s now doing it open door and a lot of these startup companies like 2007. We saw them come and go.
We actually thought about changing our name because the dynamic has changed. One of the things is most people’s promises wrong from the beginning. It’s the deceptive thing from the beginning. We offer the most for your house. That’s not what you’re going there to do. CashForHouses.net and a lot of that stuff, it’s getting passé because of places like Nest and Opendoor. We were going to redo our whole persona and say, “Let’s see if there’s a solution for you to keep your house. Let us figure out how to help you. If you need a cash offer on your house, we’ll get you one, but let’s see how you keep your house first.” Let’s get one with that attitude. Let’s have everything flow that way and quit trying to buy houses saying, “We’re going to pay you top money for your house.” It’s an oxymoron in this business. What did you think about that? It has changed. We’ve got to do something that makes people feel like it’s a service to them more than it is a quick way to dump a house.
We are constantly split testing new stuff. When we onboard a new member, we usually are coming in and saying, “Let’s split test three or four different campaigns, if not more, right out the gate,” and then we’re going to get back on a call and account review in 30 to 45 days and we’re going to look together. We’re going to provide this back to you of exactly, “Here’s what worked. Here’s what converted. You spent this amount. What’s working better? I’ll give you a couple of examples.” We track all the response rates for 27 million pieces of direct mail. We’ve tracked every single call. I know how many leads it takes to get San Antonio properties or how many in Dallas. Dallas, I know that the cost per deal is going to be closer to about $3,800. Why do I know that? I’ve got people doing it that are good and that’s about the cost. With enough calls to generate enough good seller leads to be able to make enough offers to close the deal. It’s purely a numbers game. The most important is doing it. I’ll give you a perfect example. Joe Taylor was the one that came up. There’s a postcard, they call it the pink doodle postcard. It looks like some doodle stuff on it. There’s also the Google Street View postcard. A lot of people are calling it the smart view I can tell you because we’ve probably done 400,000 or 500,000 of those in almost every market. Brad Chandler from Express Homebuyers came up with what we call 1031. It out-produces both of those four to one. It’s an ugly little postcard. Michael Jake out of Colorado may have been the original inventor from Root back in 2004. What is the value? The value of us being able to get the data and be able to react to it as a group because the market’s turning. There’s a point in time where things no longer work and you need to shift your strategy. Bring in the right people, people that are good, people that have the abundance mentality and that are accountable.CLICK TO TWEET
What does a 1031 postcard look like? At one time you were using one that looked like it was a late notice or a past due notice or something.
That still is the biggest moneymaker, but it gets some angry calls. You’ve got to have our phone team. You need to have a phone team that’s working those leads. If you’re doing it, it’s called the third notice blind copy. It will get four or five times the number of calls. Most of the money is coming off of hang-ups. People that say they’re not interested in selling or they hung up, they listen to the message, we call them back and we’re converting. Most people refer to this as the pink doodle postcard. My name and it looks like it’s got some funky doodle stuff. You’ve got what we call the 1031 exchange and white paper on this one. Usually yellow paper will outperform white, but white will outperform and get a better result. It’s an urgent, “I want to buy your house,” but this is the reason it works well. It says, “My name is,” whatever our member’s name is, Ryan Joseph. “I sold a house in your area. I’m looking to purchase another one with the proceeds,” because absentee owners or burned-out landlords like that wording. They like the no frills. This one out produces the one on the right by four to one. It’s a 400% increase. We love it when people are at seminars telling people, “Go use this secret thing,” and it doesn’t work. The Indiana Jones movie, remember when they had the rod and it would point down to where the ark was. They basically said, “They’re looking in the wrong place.” They had almost everything right, except for one piece, which is like marketing. Most people are three feet from gold. They got the right list, they’re getting the leads and then they don’t have a phone team that’s calling them back or they’re not text messaging. It’s the six Ms of Marketing: Market, Message, Media, Multiple, Months and Money. You get any one of those wrong and the marketing doesn’t work. We’re constantly perfecting that. The market is the list. What is the list, the market? That’s probably 40% to 50% of the success is going to be on the list. You can break those lists into two categories. One that’s an equity list and one that’s a motivated list. Then you have the message. That’s the words. Pretty postcards don’t work at all. It’s all about the copy. This is back from Dan Kennedy, who’s probably the pioneer of all the postcards that are out there and all the info marketing. Why do all the infomercials on TV have the same exact formula? There’s a reason, because it works. Media, how do you get that message out to that market? That could be a postcard, it could be a letter, it could be a bandit sign or it could be an outbound phone call. What is it? You do the outbound calling and if you’ve got two people, one with one script and one with the other that’s the message. One will work and convert, one won’t. Those three have to.
Multiple is how many times do you have to? What is the formula? How many times do you hit that list before you need to refresh the list? It’s typically five to eight touch points. Months means you could get list fatigue. If you’re mailing too often to a list, you’re going to burn out the list. An equity list, like even the Richter list or our invisible, we recommend only mailing to the same names and addresses every 60 days. If you do it every 30 days, you’re going to get list fatigue. I didn’t invent any of this stuff. This is the power of getting hundreds of us around the country, good people that are smart, that are true real estate professionals building a real business and they were able to share what’s working and not.
Let’s say Mitch Stephen might apply to be part of your team. You don’t take anybody. What budget do I need to work it a town? We’ve got 1.7 million people here or two million, let’s say. What budget do you suggest for me?
It comes down to the cost per deal and we’re good at helping our members figure that out. What is the cost? We build a marketing plan, a robust plan that we put in front of you that says this is exactly what we’re going to recommend. This is exactly how many calls we think we’re going to get. How many of those calls are going to turn into appointments, into contracts and into profit? What your ROI, Return on Investment, is going to look like. It’s the cost per deal. If you’re in San Antonio, as an example where you’re at, we would come in and say, “We would recommend starting about a $2,000 a month budget.” As soon as we start seeing results, we’re going to recommend and you’re making money and you’re ready, we’ll scale that up. We’ve got a guy, Javier. He’s in North Carolina. We told him to start with $1,500 a month. He said, “I want to grow faster.” He started with a $3,000 budget. It was he and his wife. A few months before, he told me he had $0.32 in his bank account. He is now doing $30,000 a month in marketing in five markets. He’s got a big team. He’s making a lot of money. He’s a seven-figure guy. As soon as you get it working and you’re making money, you scale it up. That’s the goal. Typically, we’ll tell people, “A good budget is about $1,500 to maybe $3,000. If you’re in California, if you’re in Dallas, it’s going to be a little higher. If you’re in Denver, it’s going to be higher. In Arizona, it’s going to be higher.” Some of the markets, the budget, the cost per deal is going to be higher. People can pause it, start and stop. We’re a high service. The way we’ve set this up, we’re an extension. We’re not a vendor. We’re an extension of your marketing and sales team, except we’re going to be better at it and we’re not going to steal.
You took a handful of people across the country that has the same needs. You said, “Let’s quit duplicating our efforts. Let’s all go one place.” Get the benefit of volume, get the benefit of the volume of data and get the benefit of the experience of all the other guys in the country. Putting into one collective mastermind on how to generate motivated sellers. It makes perfect sense. That was the revelation that you had in CG. You saw the problem in the whole room with a hundred people. We all had the same problem.
Every one of us should know the value of our time.CLICK TO TWEET Kent Clothier told me this. He’s like, “Bring in the right people, people that are good, people that have the abundance mentality and that are accountable.”
You’re only accepting one person in one county or in one region because it wouldn’t make any sense to be mailing all to the same people. You got that right. Keep it exclusive in certain in areas, say counties, but it may be areas because sometimes there’s overlapping counties and stuff.
We do it by zip code. We don’t want people stepping over each other mailing the same thing to the same seller. One of the things we’ve done, this is why I love working with you and others. This is an invite-only group. If you come from Mitch Stephen, and we know that you came from Mitch or you came from Sean or you came from Kent, then we know that you’ve been well-trained. That’s a good start. You fill out an application to see if this is a good fit. We jump on a call. It’s a real call. The person that you’d be talking to, she’s bought and sold a couple of hundred houses herself and I asked her to do this for me. Making sure it’s a good fit, answering all your questions and if it is, there’s no long-term commitment. We do have you sign up for 90 days. It should be for six months.
It should be. I want to say I concur, if you’re not going to do something for at least 90 days and you probably should six months, then don’t even start. It’s like video advertising. It’s a fact. People got to hear this stuff for months until their situation comes up and then you’re top of mind awareness. It takes a while. I haven’t tried to tell anybody about mail marketing. On the first month, you’ve got 2,000 units out, but on the second month you have 4,000 units out. On the tenth month, you have 20,000 units out. The oldest house I’ve bought from a postcard lead was a few years ago I mailed the postcard. I bought the house, I got the phone call and purchased the house a few years later, give or take a month. It goes to show that if you quit, you’re stopping your odds.
I’ve got a great story on this. There’s a gal. You’d see her with the tool belt. She was a rehabber. She loved fixing houses, been around a long time. She called me and said, “Gary, I’m canceling the service, but I wanted to let you know why.” She goes, “I love you guys. You’ve made my husband and me a ton of money, but you told me the importance of hitting the list.” She goes, “I’ve been mailing the same person for a couple of years. You guys have been doing it for me. Finally, she called.” It was Elizabeth. She said, “You’ve worked hard for my business. I’ve known that when I’m ready to sell my properties, it’s going to be you because you worked harder than anybody else. I’ve been receiving your marketing and your text messages and I want to sell.” Elizabeth ended up making $800,000 from one deal. I think the lady had 22 properties. They took the 800,000 and she and her husband were going to go travel to Europe for a year. She said, “I wanted to let you know the story.” I told her, “Elizabeth, God bless you. As soon as you’re ready. You’re a tool belt lady. You love houses as I do.”
I want you to go to REInvestorSummit.com/Vault. Do you have something you can give to these folks to get them going? Gary is going to give you all some incentive if you say you came from Mitch or you use the link. I always try to get my friends to pitch in a little bit and it’s not because they love me. Usually, what happens is I’m going to get on his podcast and we’re going to do a tit for tat. He did it from my folks. I’m going to do it for his folks. There’s no false graciousness here. We all are working to meet new people. One of the ways we do that is we do each other favors and we return the favors when it’s our turn so go to REInvestorSummit.com/Vault. Do you have something you can give away?
I do and make sure if you talk to us, make sure you tell us Mitch Stephen told you to talk to us. We get a lot of people that come from Facebook and other places. We want to know that you were referred by Mitch. A second thing is I have a script. We have a seller script. A lot of guys from CG helped me with this, but I’ve got the ultimate seller script on the words in the right order to say to a seller if you’re calling them or maybe you’re having somebody, maybe it’s your own team. This is the same script our trained phone team does for our members. If you want to do it on your own, I’ll give you the actual perfect words of exactly what to say if you’re doing cold calls.
Go to REInvestorSummit.com/Vault and we’re going to have a link over there for the seller script. It’s a giveaway free seller’s script that you’ll be able to get it over there and also all of Boomershine’s contact information, 800 numbers or whatever Gary thinks needs to be put in there so you can get in contact with him and apply. One of the reasons why Gary wants you to say my name is because there’s a different quality of people coming through. He was telling me and I was quite proud of it, that a lot of my followers are educated and savvy, which makes me feel good. Hopefully I have a part in that. I would like to think I did, but either way he’s saying when people come straight from Facebook or Craigslist, they’re not such a great client and not such a great fit for them. When they come from other people and we’re one of them that seems to be a better fit. Make sure you say that. I appreciate you giving this away because I can’t tell you how many people have talked to me that are afraid to death to get someone on the phone at first because they don’t know what to say. This is going to be a big help.
I love you, Mitch, for two reasons. Number one, you’re the real deal and you’re real. You say it the way it is, as opposed to a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Number two, you’re from Texas. I’m from California and probably my wife and the kids are probably coming your way given the craziness over here.
We need some more good gun-toting people down here. Come on down, please. I know that when you get down here, you will vote like a Texan. You’ve got to be a fit. You have to be a fit. If you don’t like that part, I’m not sure that it works. Let’s get over to the website and get your free seller script. Anything else we need to add before we go? We covered a lot of territories.
I’ll put some other stuff out there. There’s an ROI calculator, lead calculator that will figure out exactly what your budget. You want to make $1 million, you’re in this particular market, fill this particular thing and it’ll tell you what your marketing budget, it’ll tell you how many leads you need. I’ll make sure I give that to you on the side as well.
The one I thought was cool that we talked about was what your time worth calculator is?
I’ll give you that too. I’ve never heard of that before in my life. Can we have that too?
I’ll give that to you. I’m going to add and I know that this goes long, but Justin Colby was the one that said that he did this and I built the tool. I’ll give it to all of your readers on that website. Every one of us should know the value of our time. How much money are you putting into your bank account or want to put into the bank account? Let’s say it’s $500,000 a year and let’s say you work 40 hours a week. Multiply that by 50 hours. We do this all for you. That means your time is worth $250 an hour. Anything that you’re doing in your business that is less value than $250, you need to have somebody better than you do it. It’ll show you exactly what the value is. All of us, our time is somewhere between $150 and $1,000 an hour. If you’re working too hard, if you’re overwhelmed, this tool is an eye-opener of like, “I need to go and find this group to do my marketing and my phone work,” or dispositions. You start growing, property management and all that stuff.
At one point in one year, I was doing this calculation. I’m not quite as savvy as you, but I finally came to a conclusion. My wife asked me to go mow the yard and I was getting in that mindset from CG that I couldn’t work below my pay grade. I shouldn’t do things that are below my pay grade. I figured out that the moment that my pay grade was $800 an hour. I was having a good year. My wife says, “When are you going to mow the lawn?” I say, “I don’t mow the lawn anymore.” “What do you mean?” I said, “I’m worth $800 an hour. You need to find someone else to mow the lawn. You can’t afford me.” She thought I was the biggest jerk ever to walk the planet, but I didn’t mow the lawn and I don’t mow the lawn to this day. I don’t do a lot of things to this day because it takes that mindset. She’ll ask me, “Can you pick up the dry cleaners on the way from work?” I said, “No, I can’t. I won’t. I don’t want to get caught up in that stuff. Get someone to do it. I’ll be happy to pay for them. Leave me alone.” Right up here when I’m not picking up the dry cleaning or figuring out why the lawnmower’s not starting, I’m getting a lot of things done. It might not look like it. You might not think it is. Some people are like, “I don’t work.” I said, “You have no idea. I was working before you opened your mouth, you interrupted me. I was working before you started talking. Now, I’ve got to stop.” They’re like, “It doesn’t look like you’re working.” I said, “What is it? It’s because I don’t have a jackhammer in my hand doesn’t mean I’m not working.” It’s a good point. I love talking to you. Mitch, it’s a pleasure. I’d like to thank you for reading to get you some Gary Boomershine and learn about how to take about four to seven hats off in one move. That’s what it’s all about. I want you to please visit the sponsor TaxFreeFuture.com. If you’re not using a tax-defer or a tax-free entity to grow your retirement or your finances, then you are missing out on a huge opportunity. You will not believe what your financial advisors are not telling you. You’ll understand what they’re not telling you and exactly why they’re not telling it to you. Please go to their website. Gary, we’re out of here. This is Mitch Stephen bringing you the good stuff.
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