Men Imploding With Kevin Wheeler
Episode 475: Men Imploding With Kevin Wheeler
Men have always been taught to hide their feelings because being open and sensitive is for losers. If something goes wrong, they would find an excuse to get drunk at the bar, chase girls, and do drugs until they finally implode one someone or themselves. These “so-called” teachings are all wrong and outdated. Join your host, Mitch Stephen and his guest, co-founder, program developer, coach, and lead facilitator at the Multipliers Mastermind, Kevin Wheeler. Listen to Kevin as he explains why men shouldn’t be afraid to open up and how they are actually ruining their lives by keeping everything inside.
I’m here with Kevin Wheeler. I met this guy in Multipliers, which is a mastermind that I’m very proud to be part of. He has helped me a lot. He’s a personal mental health coach, an overall motivator but a little deeper than that and gives you all the reasons why we are motivated or not motivated or things may not be connecting. How are you doing, Kevin?
Mitch, I’m great. It’s good to be with you.
Thanks for taking the time to be on with us. Part of the reason why I went to The Multipliers Mastermind is that it’s 50 men. We were all there to network and do business but we were also there to be men and talk about the problems and the struggles that men have especially successful men who can do about anything they want. One thing that struck me and one of the reasons why it caught my attention was they had taken a poll, “Do you have a place to go to be vulnerable to talk about the real you, the truth about you and everything that you are going through?” Eighty-plus percent of the men said, “No,” they don’t have a place like that to go, which is why I think we see newspaper articles all the time of men imploding and burning it all down as they leave the farm, torching it all to the ground.
A lot of these guys are later in life have spent decades building things and they get to where they can’t handle it. I thought, “I think I need to be in this space.” That was how I met Kevin. I was there with 50 men. It was a very uncomfortable weekend because that’s one of the things I want to talk about as we go through this episode. As men, we bury so much crap down deep and push it down that it’s no wonder we blow up sometimes and implode. Tell us about your background. How did you get to where you are counseling people?
I’m not supposed to be here. If it had been my design, I wouldn’t have found my way here. I was a serial entrepreneur. I ended up getting into corporate because I wanted to understand how to structure and run a business. I came from serial entrepreneurship, corporate infrastructure in restaurant and hospitality. I then found my way to a large group awareness training that changed everything for me. I was evaluating the direction of my life. I was working for a business consulting firm on 9/11. The day the towers fell, I had just graduated from this program. I felt it on 9/11, “It wasn’t just a day to go figure out more business.”
I went down to this nonprofit. The guy who was there running it, I walked back in there and he said, “What do you want?” I said, “Honestly, I want your job.” He said, “It’s not available yet,” but I said, “That’s fine. I’m willing to be your successor.” He groomed and molded me. I have done twelve years of over 15,000 hours of large group facilitation in an emotional awareness bootcamp. My specialty was going into your past to try to understand how your childhood and the defining moments of our lives shape our future and shape us as men. To where, later in life, we want to burn down all the great things we built because we don’t know how to handle who we are and our emotional selves. It’s a short way around.
Let’s talk about how events in our childhood do affect us. I hear that “I don’t get my arms around it.” I think, “That’s for wimps.” Tell me about some case studies or how we can trace them back.
Let’s understand how the brain works. That was where it began. I started this journey for myself because I wanted to understand what it took to have a fundamental change, not a white-knuckle change like a dry drunk. I’m talking about true sobriety with no need for that and no demons that are chasing you. What I want to do is figure out, “What is it about the human brain?” Daniel Siegel in his book, Mindsight, outlines this well. He is an MD. He is a physician who is a psychiatrist. He is one of the leading authorities on brain science and neuro-interpersonal biology. It’s how we interact with people.
Let’s go over the brain. We have a left brain and a right brain. We know about that. The left brain is our reason, intellect and rational thinking. It’s a lot of that systemic thinking. Our right brain is our emotional brain. Our emotional brain is not supposed to be used by boys when we are young because that makes us wimps and wusses. We never understood the right brain. We have our upstairs brain and our downstairs brain. The downstairs brain is the limbic system, fight, flight or freeze, which we know well. Upstairs being the rational, emotional, thinking, the late man. If we don’t understand our brain, we are only using a part of it. Your subconscious drives you in ways that it thinks to benefit you. Your subconscious will do nothing it believes is not in your best interest.When you have a bad day, your gut is trying to tell you there's a problem. But what do we do as men? We shove it down and have another beer. Click To Tweet
Your subconscious is a tape recorder. It is recording events that say, “That stove is hot. Don’t touch it,” so you don’t even have to think consciously about it. If a tiger is chasing you, you don’t stop and go, “Maybe I should think about what species.” You take off running at least faster than the person next to you. This isn’t rocket science but that same program is around fear or beliefs. When it gets set, it gets set until it’s updated. When we were young, we were a complete lizard brain. We are a limbic system until we are about seven. Anything that happens to you as a kid until seven happens to your subconscious. It’s written in your program. You don’t have permission to update it unless you are talking to your subconscious and it understands that.
Your subconscious is out to protect you. Get this. It processes at 40,000 bits a minute. Your conscious mind, thinking mind processes at 40 bits a minute. Your subconscious is 1,000 times faster. That’s how it protects you. That’s why you have great reflexes and everything else. If you were taught at a very young age that you were a piece of crap because over and over that’s what you have been told, you have been put on, you have been put down, the whole world is dumped on you until age seven, that now lives in your body. Whether you believe that you deserve to be dumped on.
All your life, you have affirmations but that internal fight we have between this thing that we want to be but this thing that we feel we are, that’s the program and that’s exactly what I’m talking about. They happen in an instant, where a gymnast gets told by her coach, “Aren’t you getting a little fat for the sport?” It shattered this sense of self. A kid who gets hit by his father one time and no longer is that a safe relationship. It’s not that you are a wuss. It’s that you are taking care of yourself but you are doing it in an old program.
Here’s the worst part about the burn-it-down thing because we men have that. We are emotional creatures, yet our entire life nobody taught us how to deal with it. All that stuff on the right side, the right brain, nobody told us how to process that emotion and it’s not rational. Your subconscious communicates to you through feelings in your body and images in your mind. It doesn’t understand talking. When you have these feelings like that gut, not in your stomach, when you have a bad day, your gut is trying to tell you there’s a problem but what do we do as men? Shove it down, have another beer, go out and chase a girl or whatever it is to try to feel better instead of feeling what we are feeling. When we get older, don’t feel good about ourselves, made a bad decision or two, aren’t very happy or don’t feel like it’s worth much, we burn it down. Why? It’s because we don’t feel like it’s of much value anyway or we self-sabotage. How many guys do you know self-sabotage later in life?
A lot. There were about 45 men who showed up. I think one of the most eye-opening statements I remember off the top of my head was, “We were told to be men but no one ever told us what that meant.” No one explained to us, “How do we be a man? No one ever told us.” We just associated with, “Be tough. Don’t cry. Kickass.”
“Chase girls. Be tough. Don’t show emotion. You are the ruler. You are the king. Everything is your subordinate.” The hard part is we were taught that in middle school, which I think is the meanest place on Earth where you are trying to learn power, who has status and all that kind of stuff. That’s what we take out. We are rewarded for that. It gets worse and worse. In high school, we add to it, “Chasing girls. We add drugs, drinking and fighting. We are asserting. There’s competitiveness.” We go out into college, “Let’s up the ante. We were drinking hardcore. It’s competitive drinking. We were trying to be better, tougher, stronger, notches on the bedpost.” Everything is to be a man.
For us older guys, all the men that were our icons were these loners, strong men. They were isolated. They didn’t have a family, women or anybody. They were the tough icons we wanted to be like yet we couldn’t figure out from that model how to make all of our relationships work. All those people said, “Screw it, my way or the highway. You don’t get to tell me. What do you mean? I’m in control. This is my world.” That works until you have a wife, kids, business partners and all these things that require you to be a little more amiable than that. That man box also usually demeaned women, which then put us in a weird power dynamic with our wives and our daughters. It’s because if we don’t want to be a wuss, that means that women are. Yet if you have ever seen a woman give birth, they are much tougher than men. We may be able to be big and strong but to do 36 hours of labor, a lot of men just fold.
They opt in to do it again and again.
Do you know why? It’s because there is something that women have in that emotional connection that makes the pain worthwhile. Whereas men are like, “Hell no,” because nobody told us how to process pain, yet pain is real. Disappointment, betrayal, hurt, insecurities and all the things that we are told we can’t feel, we do. Here’s the worst part. The subconscious thing lives in our body. Your emotions live in your body. We were told, “You weren’t supposed to feel them,” so we shove them down. What that does is creates illness, arthritic back, all these problems, gut problems, autoimmune problems and cancer because we were not dealing with our emotions. They go, hide and live in our bodies. Why? It’s because we are too afraid to talk about them.
The other thing I remember because it was my first time there. There were men there who had been there several times for years. They were in tune with the lingo but they kept saying, “I have held this beach ball underwater for as long as I could. I was trying to hold it down. At some point, I can’t hold it down anymore. That’s when all the problems would start.”
Have you ever seen a kid in a pool trying to hold a beach ball down? It’s a mess but you watch these guys, they get older. Once they start to deceive themselves, to deceive something else or live out something that isn’t congruent with them, they start to have all this conflict and that’s the beach ball. It’s because of the conflict, we don’t know what we want, what fulfills us, what makes us happy and what satiates us. All these conflicts, our inner conflicts manifest themselves in outward disasters. That is the way they telegraph. We can hold that beach ball underwater until we get old.
Usually, we have stacked things so high, we have built all this stuff and we can’t hold it anymore. That’s why I believe that women, all of us but men especially, need to find places they can go dump their freaking baggage and talk about it. I’m not saying that you should open your kimono and show everybody everything underneath all the time. You need a place to go process the hard stuff for the world. If you don’t, it will manifest in a blow-up. It always does. Haven’t you seen that?
Yes. That’s the alcohol addiction.
Porn, gambling, you name it.
Wherever there is pleasure or sense, they are going there trying to get the pleasure. What was the name of the man who wrote the book, The True Measure of a Man, who was there who spoke with us?
Richard E Simmons III.
Not to be confused with Richard Simmons. He said, “Shame was the destroyer of men.”
One of my favorite books is by a woman named Brené Brown. It’s called Daring Greatly. She’s one of the world’s leading authorities on shame and vulnerability. She did a PhD on it, nine years in research because she wanted to understand it. She didn’t want to have to deal with it. What’s so funny about it because, in that book, she talks about a man in a yellow Izod, about 60 years old, who comes up and he says, “What does your study show about shame and men?” She goes, “I haven’t done a lot of study with shame and men.” He goes, “That’s convenient.”
He goes, “You know we have it, don’t you? I want you to know, most of it is put on us by the women in our life because you say you want vulnerable men who are open, honest and accepting. When we do that, you get afraid. What you say is you want us to be open and sensitive but when we do, you say, ‘Get back on your white Charger. This is not acceptable.'” What’s so wild is the man box we talked about into Loom, women enforce it just as much as men especially down here in Texas. I do know in the middle of the night if I hear something, I don’t go, “Honey, get up and go check that.”
They want leadership, decisiveness and strong. It’s a contradiction because then we are supposed to be this other thing too so it’s like, “Which one is it?”
It’s, “How do we be both?” What I have learned is I can be the first one in a fight but I need to be the first one to be courageous enough to also cry, be vulnerable and show what the pain of that fight is. Otherwise, I’m going to carry it. I’m going to hand it to my children, to my son in anger, resentment and hostility. He called me a mom and I went, “I’m a MOM?” He went, “Yes, a Mad Old Man.” We were driving in Texas if you think about it in children, it’s not what’s taught. It’s what’s caught. I tell you that down here, there are a lot of mad old men. Why? It’s because they never were taught how to deal with their emotions.
The funny thing is about emotions what I would call them their man stations or what we were allowed. Fun, excitement, thrill, anger, resentment, irritation, frustration, hatred, disgust but all the mushy middle stuff, we are allowed that stuff. It’s both extremes. Everything in the middle is what we are missing. It’s because of that, we are very limited in our experience of life but also our ability to process everything that happens. Women sit down after a catastrophic event. They all get together, cry, talk about it and process it out.As men, we bury so much crap deep down that it's no wonder we blow up sometimes and implode. Click To Tweet
Daniel Siegel talks about and there’s a great set of child’s books that he has done called The Whole-Brain Child and The Yes Brain. They talked about an eighteen-month-old child processing out the cognitive experiences of a car accident over about 3 or 4 weeks to where they get to the point that they resolve it in their mind. They close the loop. Let me put it this way. My daughter is a teenager now, seventeen but when she was about four years old, let me paint this picture for you. You’ve got a kid, four years old. It’s a bluebird day, sunshine and she’s out ahead. She doesn’t care in the world. Everything is great. In her excitement, she gets up. She runs across the yard and trips on the edge of the concrete driveway. She falls onto the floor badly, scraping her knees and her hands.
At that moment, I can be 1 of 3 different caregivers or assistants to try to help this little girl learn. I can run over and start screaming, “Trinity, you are so clumsy. Why weren’t you thinking? Why didn’t you pick up your feet?” I can let my fear create anger, hostility and condemnation of this child in her suffering. That reinforces, “I make mistakes. I’m no good. I’m not supported.” I could even be an absent parent where she’s home alone. She’s a feral child with nobody to raise her. She just lives there for the rest of the day. I met with a caring, empathetic and understanding parent. I run over, scooped her up and go, “I know how much this hurts.” I connected with her pain. She felt it. She didn’t understand it. She was four.
I said, “I know this must burn.” I gave her another adjective to describe it, “That’s burning. Can you feel your heartbeat, the throbbing? That’s not pain but your body is working to help you.” I’m trying to separate these feelings to help her understand. I went, “We are going to have to go deal with this and clean it up or it’s going to get worse.” I was having to give aid to the circumstances, “Let’s go inside. I’m going to get the peroxide and the alcohol. I’m not going to use the alcohol. It burns a lot but the peroxide is magical. When I pour it on, it will bubble up and fizz.” She was still crying. I said, “When I pour this on, it’s going to burn but as long as I keep blowing, it won’t be burning. I won’t stop until you tell me to stop.”
This whole time we were dealing with pain, I was helping her understand it. I was helping her deal with it, going, “We are going to have to clean it up.” I get the magic in a Neosporin, “This heals fast.” I said, “The next couple of days it’s going to hurt. You are going to roll over. You are going to have trouble sleeping. It’s going to be uncomfortable all the time. In 3 or 4 days, you will forget for a little while that it wasn’t until you bumped something. After a week, you will forget a whole lot until you hit but it will get better.” Think about a child who was molested at six by a friend, cousin or uncle and nobody taught them how to deal with the pain. Abandoned, divorced, dad disappeared and never came home. Same scrapes, elbows and knees, nobody taught them how to deal with it. What happens to that pain? The loop is never closed. It’s never discharged. It’s never understood. “Why did my dad leave? It’s because I’m a bad kid. He didn’t love me enough,” or whatever it is because that’s what children do.
Any of this is about having a safe place to process the left and right brain. Rational thinking, “How did this happen?” Emotional thinking, “How much does this hurt? What is the meaning of this so I can find purpose? How do I process these feelings, grief, sadness, loss, anger, frustration, all these real feelings? I have to give them a voice. I have to process them. Otherwise, they are trapped in me. When they are trapped in me, that bomb goes off on somebody.” Have you ever heard of displaced aggression?
No, tell me.
Most of my college years were displaced aggression.
How does a man, 50 or 60, close the loop from something that happened at 4 or 5, 6 or 7 or 8 or 9?
First of all, that lucidity, that awareness, “I have a hole in my heart. I have a piece.” Many men want to say, “You must have been a wussy if that statement from your father hurt like that.” It’s like, “Call me whatever you want but it hurt. My father, Type A and driven, I always felt like I wasn’t good enough.” I had to tie that back to what it was to understand the root of the feeling. Going back and processing so many people especially if you had a painful past, don’t want to talk about it. Why? It’s because when I talk about the pain, it becomes real, present, visceral and I don’t want that.
People judge us being as a wimp, “Suck it up. Tough it out. Get on with it.” That’s what they say or you can think people are saying that. You can think in yourself, “Man up, dude.” There are some things you just don’t man up over. You got to work them through.
To me, manning up is sitting here in this dirty diaper. All my life, I have taken that dirty diaper and shoved it up to somebody else’s ass. I’m not here playing and I’m not going to take anything off of anybody. Why? It’s because I took it off my dad, “Now, you were just a mean old man and nobody wants to be around you. Do you wonder why you are lonely?” It’s like, “Yes but I’m a man.” “You are a lonely man. You are bitter, isolated and withdrawn. You don’t know what to do about it because you aren’t willing to talk about how much it hurts. You aren’t willing, to be honest.” I’m not saying be a victim because I hate victims. To sit there, just cry and wallow in self-pity is not the objective. It’s to go in, go back and unearth that little kid who you buried and resuscitate him.
I remember when I did my training and started this journey, I shot my eleven-year-old kid because he was the one who cared. I was like, “Hell if I stop caring, I will not take care of all that. I don’t worry about my dad. I don’t worry about running over people. I’m just not caring.” At 35, I realized that my sensitivity, all the stuff I wanted for my family, my wife and all the people around me was buried in Austin, Texas. I went and dug him up and cleaned him up, “What did I do to him?” I trashed him because I made bad decisions. I did drugs. I hurt him this way. I did all this. I owned my behavior and then I decided to talk about how I felt.
The hardest part for me was facing me, the shame of what I did, not what my father did to me or what everything else that had happened that set me up. Those were all my excuses for telling the world to pound sand. That was when it got problematic because I didn’t process that out. At 35, I’m going, “Look what I did, not what they did. Look at the choices I made.” That was a matter of my character than because I let my excuses for that justify my bad behavior.
Does that tie back to “Shame was the destroyer of men?”
Shame resiliency is the rising of men because it’s creating shame resiliency. That’s the ability to talk about it and feel it. Go talk to a group of friends who are your badasses. Those are the ones who can handle your emotions and won’t call you a wuss because they know how much courage it takes to be vulnerable and knows that you were not going to sit in that dirty diaper and quit. You don’t go talk about your emotions and dump them so you can quit and then be a victim. It’s so you can look in the mirror and go be the powerful man you were supposed to be, not the angry man that you have learned to be. There’s a big difference. There’s a great book. It’s awful to listen but it’s called Power vs. Force. Men understand force. Power is a very different thing because I can run over somebody, that doesn’t mean I influenced them.
When you talk about everything that’s at stake, I said, “Do you want to appeal to some customers?” I want to preface this right off the bat by saying, “Prices change and the prices now but Kevin has the right to change his price any day he wants to.” As of early May 2021, you said, “One kind of expense is I have $2,500 a month.” When I heard that, I said, “That’s cheap compared to what I’m going to burn down. I spent a lifetime building a fortune. It makes $2,500 a month look like a chump change.”
I want to let people know that if you feel like you are at a crossroads in your life or a breaking point or that you are ready to go face a few things that you think are causing you a problem, you may have a hunch. Maybe you need to find out if that’s what it is or not. $2,500 a month to get some real help is not expensive compared to what the other options are going to happen sooner or later as you are going to burn it down as you walk out. Who was that Senator who ran off with his secretary and went hiking in the hills of Kentucky or North Carolina? They do it every day. You can see it every day. If you start paying attention and once you understand, people are burning it down as they walk out all the time. It’s like, “Why did he do that? He had everything.” “That’s a good question. There’s probably a good answer if he is going to slow down to work on it.”
Usually, men especially were too arrogant. Most of what I have learned, I did by burning it down. I will be 59 this June 2021. I’m tired of burning it down. I’m tired of learning the hard way. At our age, a lot of it is arrogance. Humility is, “I am teachable.” When you feel like you are in a hard place, what many Type A entrepreneurs driving men to do is pick up the load, strap on the freight train and drag it like the strong man down the street. Everybody sees the freight car behind you that you are dragging and it’s all over your face but you are arrogant enough to believe that you can keep doing this.
I want everyone to go to 1000Houses.com/Lucid and learn about clarity of thinking. Explain lucidity and clarity of thinking because on the surface it’s like, “I think clear.” That’s not exactly what you are talking about, is it?
Not at all. I’m talking about seeing things for what they are. When you see things with your naked eye, you see one thing. You put in for red, you see another. There are all these light spectrums and layers of the ability to see. A human being has many of those that we do not use. We shut ourselves off from emotional perception and so we miss all these things. We shut ourselves off from cause and effect and so we don’t see the things that are cascading in front of us and get ahead of them, the ability to see around corners. We have the ability to be amazingly perceptive and sensitive when we are awake and aware. Most people are terrified of the truth. Therefore, awareness is never sought. Lucidity is the highest form of awareness that I could create. Meaning, I am completely lucid, clear, transparent, in the light. That’s what I mean.
You were talking about tying your emotional thoughts with your cognitive left brain, right-wing thoughts so that they are all in line. It sounds a little out there sometimes for some of us and I’m the first one to say, “I’m getting my arms around it.” My time around you in Multipliers was important enough to me and effective enough in the short time that we have been together that I wanted to have you on. When I first heard about PTSD, I didn’t get it. Once I understood PTSD from an event that happened to me closely, I started to see it everywhere. It’s like when you buy the red Corvette, you notice the red Corvette is on the road. Ever since you were talking about men imploding, I started to see men imploding everywhere or they are well on their way and they don’t even know it.
PTSD is the most amazingly adept thing the brain does for self-preservation. It keeps a person from disintegrating, meaning going catatonic. You could not function. PTSD is the brain’s safety net. In that twelve years, I worked with hundreds of combat vets. You can update PTSD. The sad thing is most men aren’t willing to get help. That is exactly when the subconscious said, “I will tell you, I will take care of you. Gun under the pillow, uber vigilant, nobody will ever sneak up on me. I haven’t slept in four years. I’m a little suicidal. I’m at the last night of my rope but I’m vigilant.”We were told to be men, but no one ever told us what that meant. Click To Tweet
I also met a man. The first thing they do is they put these men on 100% disability. They can’t have a job or they will lose their disability. Now, they have this sickness and they were sitting their ass on a sofa, watching sitcoms all day and their value as a man is going right in the shitter. I don’t understand the thought process behind, “We are trying to help people.” They are ruining them.
I don’t want to get into the VA. If you wanted to look at a study that does challenge your thinking, there’s a guy named Paul Bach-y-Rita. He did a bunch of studies on brain plasticity. His father was a medical practicing physician at the time and he had a debilitating stroke. It completely shut down his motor functional on one side, lost his speech and lost everything. His son said, “I guess my father started crawling. He loves gardening.” He took his 60-year-old father. Can you imagine your son taking you out? You have had a stroke, drops you in the flower bed and says, “Have at it, dad.” He got back full motor skills. He got his speech back. He was still teaching and practicing at the end of his career.
They went in and did a cross-section of his brain. It was like 70% of his brain had been destroyed and he had remapped the function. This is when I got excited and I got all tingling. What I got excited about is what the human brain can do. What’s disturbing about our treatment is that we believe magic pills or surgical things do it. That’s not true. Medicine does not heal but the human body, God’s divine or whatever, heals. We have to understand what that is, brain and all of it, if we want to be who we are supposed to be and not defined by our broken bodies and our broken spirits.
If you are interested in more, I want you to go to 1000Houses.com/Lucid. Check out, Kevin Wheeler. All his contact information is over there. I have a real estate investing show but some things are more important and that need to be part of it. You can’t separate the human condition from any business, much less in real estate investing or whatever you want to. You got to be right as a human, first of all, so I include these kinds of things. I went on my own journey of change. I quit smoking, drinking and lost a lot of weight. Getting into all those physical things and that small amount of stuff, I started to get in tune with a lot of things.
That was lucidity. That’s it.
I started to hear things I had never heard. I was seeing things I had never seen.
You felt what I’m explaining. It’s the clarity that opens things up.
That was not playing. This was a real realization. That was what happened. That was lucidity. That’s what the hell you are talking about because I started to clean up my crap one little basket at a time and then things started looking different.
You wanted to clean up more so it looked a little better. These things started to happen, “I saw this over here. This happened and it was magical and all this. The roads started to rise to me.”
Unbelievable, that was what happened.
I know and that’s lucidity.
Do you only do males or do you talk to females?
I do some but mostly men just because that’s who I relate to most.
If you think you are at these crossroads or that you might be lacking a little lucidity or you need to start cleaning up some things, why don’t you give him a buzz? I’m sure there’s a free consult over there somewhere.
I would be happy to talk to anybody. Everyone, I would be happy to give you some time to see where you are, what you might be thinking and how I might give you some help and direction.
Anything you want to say to the men out there in the world, Kevin?
One last thing is that courage, in my opinion, is the ability, to be honest with yourself. That is easier said than done but that’s where everything starts. That’s where lucidity starts are that you are brutally honest with yourself. Once you are there, nobody else can lie to you and define your truth for you but you have to accept the harshest, most real truth and get that verified because GPS has three points of verification. You have to have an executive committee that will be brutally honest with you so that you go, “I am on Second Street at the end of paramount in hell. I didn’t realize that I was on Second Street at the end of paramount in hell. I just thought I was on Second Street at the end of paramount in Nebraska.”
It’s good stuff, Kevin. I always liked talking to you. I learned a lot. I’m learning more by the minute from you. It’s encouraging and exciting. I hope someone out there read this if it’s time for them to read it. This is Mitch Stephen with the 1000Houses.com/Podcast. I would like to thank everyone out there for stopping by to get you some Kevin Wheeler. Try making a run at lucidity, 1000Houses.com/Lucid.
About Kevin Wheeler
Experienced Founder with a demonstrated history of working in the non-profit organization management industry. Strong community and social services professional skilled in Nonprofit Organizations, Negotiation, Business Planning, Coaching, and Executive Coaching.
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