The Golden Nugget Of Retirement Plans With Tim Berry

Episode 510: The Golden Nugget Of Retirement Plans With Tim Berry

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REIS 510 | Retirement Plans

The Golden Nugget of Retirement Plans with Tim Berry

Every American needs to be ready with their retirement plans if they want to enjoy their non-working years. With several types of investments available, you need to study each one before making a decision. In this episode, Mitch Stephen talks shop with Tim Berry, founder of Tax Free Future. Mitch and Tim discuss several different investment plans for retirees, focusing on IRAs, self-directed retirement plans, and 401K plans. Learn more and prepare for your golden years by tuning into this conversation to learn more about how to take advantage of retirement plans for your lifestyle.

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I’m here with Tim Berry, and we’ve been friends for a while. This guy is a wealth of knowledge. He is over two decades in this business of the legalese and the legal do’s and don’ts. He is an attorney for retirement plans, how to fix them when you broke them, how to open and shut them, how to move around in them, and how to make them grow.

That’s where I come in, too, because I like all these creative ways that you can move this money into tax-free retirement plans. We’re talking about all different kinds of plans, not just IRAs or 401(k)s but all kinds of stuff. With no further ado, how are you doing, Tim?

I’m doing fantastic, Mitch. How are you doing?

I’m pretty good. We’ve had the pleasure of speaking before, but it’s always fun to talk to you. It’s always changing. There are always new twists and turns to the business of tax-free retirement plans. That’s what keeps it fun.

Some people are coming up with things out of their own brain and then the law or thing is shifting. That’s how the rich get richer.

They study money and how it works. They know how to use the legal concepts that are built, set up, and passed by law. The people that don’t study that stuff sit around and wonder why they have to make 1% in a bank account. If you’re one of those people sitting around complaining because the rich keep getting richer and you’re not, ask yourself how many hours are you spending on shows like this talking to people about how to grow your money.

The answer will probably be very little because, if you start studying about it, anyone can do this. You don’t have to have a membership or certificate. You just have to get off your ass, go learn how and why they’re doing it, and then start applying yourself even at the most modest level. Everyone starts out with zero. We all come out the same with nothing.

Let me toss in real fast. They got access to a lot of knowledge too. They got access to people like you who can tell them how to get more successful and get more money. It’s not they’re limited by their own time on studying, but they can also hire other people. This isn’t a pitch people to try to hire me, but it’s the reality. The rich have access to more consultants and knowledge than the Regular Joe does.

A couple of yes or no questions first and we’re going to expand on them. One is, can you buy and sell real estate inside a deferred retirement plan?

Absolutely. Let me make one correction here. Sorry to be corrected. If you do it right, it’s not even a deferred retirement plan. It’s a completely tax-free retirement plan and a lot of people do that. Can you buy real estate inside your retirement plan? Yes.

Are there any limits to the amount of contributions you can put into it?

They got contribution limits, but those are for people who don’t know what they’re doing. Theoretically, the contributions are $5,000 or $6,000 for IRS. That’s not too exciting, $50,000 something for 401(k)s, but there are examples of people having billions inside the retirement plan. Are there contribution limits? Yes. Once again, if you have access to that knowledge, you can blow past those contribution limits.

Let’s keep making the point. This has case law. It’s studied. We’re not doing anything geeky. Your job is to keep us between the lines and doing it by the book, but there are ways to do it by the book. You just have to read the book. If you’re going to play Monopoly, learn how Monopoly rules work.

It’s not only that, but the government issued the book. Back in October of 2014, they issued a report saying exactly how people moved hundreds of millions of dollars inside a retirement plan. They’re well aware of it. They’ve looked at it and analyzed it. There is nothing wrong with it. They’ve allowed it and it’s still going on.

The rich have access to more consultants and more knowledge than the regular Joe does. Share on X

We’re playing by the book the government wrote and even provided us. If any of the readers want a copy of that book, by all means, have them send you an email and you support it on over to me. I’ll be more than happy to give you a copy of the government playbook of how to move the millions under the retirement plan.

If you don’t plan on this stuff and take the time, it’s a long brutal world out there. Let’s learn how to win and get ahead. Let’s start with real estate. How can someone use the funds to invest in real estate? There are a million ways to invest in real estate, but let’s start somewhere. Pick any way you want and tell us.

The simple thing is, if you have an IRA for the masses, they’re going to have IRAs. They need to use a fancy trust company to move their IRA to that fancy trust company. It’s called an IRA custodian. That IRA custodian creates an LLC and then we name the IRA owner as the manager of the LLC. The IRA assets get moved into the LLC. Now, whenever somebody wants to invest in real estate, it’s no big deal. They’re the manager of this LLC. They’ve got a checkbook. They write the checkout and make the investment. It’s that simple.

Correct me if I’m wrong. We work together at TaxFreeFuture.com where they can help you get that done. If you want to move into a self-directed retirement plan or tax-free retirement plan, TaxFreeFuture.com does that. That’s one of your choices and I highly recommend it. If you use the free door where you get in and open it all up for free and everything, first of all, they’re probably not going to set you up with an LLC. They’re just going to get you into a self-directed plan. You’re going to have to answer to them a lot and wait for them.

If you get in the free door, they’re going to charge you all the way out in the back end for the rest of your life until freedom looks so good anymore. If you go through the TaxFreeFuture.com door, it’s about $1,500 plus whatever the cost of your LLC is. You’re paying a flat fee every year of $150, $175, or $200. What is it?

It’s right around $200. It depends on if it’s an IRA or 401(k), but let’s just say $200, plus or minus $50.

$200 or $250, it doesn’t matter because that’s all you pay every year as a servicing or maintenance fee. In some of the plans I had been in before, the more transaction I did, they fed me to death. I had four retirement plans that I was investing in. I looked up and they charged me $3,000, more or less. For each one of us, it’s $12,000 for the year or I could have paid $250 each. That’s an overstatement.

I remember there’s one fee. It was based on how big your account was. The bigger you got, the more they charged you in that one assessment. It was X percent of whatever the value of your retirement plan was. I was thinking, “The bigger you get, the more penalized you become.” That’s not fun. A pretty long time ago, Tim and I sat down and said, “How do you get out of these fees?” He started explaining it to me and I said, “Everyone needs to know about this.”

That’s how TaxFreeFuture.com was born. If you’re going to do anything in these retirement funds, you’re much better to ignore the free entry, do the $1,500 entry, buy your LLC, and then be capped at what you’re going to be charged at something stupid like $200 plus. That’s the whole reason TaxFreeFuture.com exists. It was a different choice.

It’s like the Valvoline commercials. Remember the Valvoline commercials, “You can pay me now or you can pay me later.”

You pay a little bit up front and then keep it way down forever or you can pay nothing and watch it start racking up over the years. Believe me. It turns into tens of thousands more if you pick the free door. I do transactions and find a property that’s of great value. I look over at my retirement fund and see that it has enough in it to purchase the property.

This is just one example because you can borrow money. Your retirement plans can borrow money. It’s a different story. I look over there and there are enough funds. I direct my retirement plan to buy the property. Once the retirement plan owns it, I direct the retirement plan to seller finance the property to a buyer over a 30-year note for twice as much. My $50,000 is $100,000, making 10% in one move.

REIS 510 | Retirement Plans

Retirement Plans: So long as you have access to knowledge and people who can help you out through the process, everything is relatively straightforward.


Those deals don’t happen every day. The muscle in that deal was you got to be able to find discounted properties, but if that’s what you do, you know how to do it or you’re willing to learn how to do it, that’s the kind of returns. When I first started, I didn’t have very much money in my accounts. In fact, I only opened my accounts with the bare minimum, like $250 at that time. Everyone was like, “What can you do with $250?” I said, “Let me tell you.”

There are so many words I would like to use and I got to stay with general. You instruct your retirement plan to write an earnest money contract to buy the property at a great discount. Your retirement plan puts up the $100 earnest money. The retirement plan is the potential purchaser. Once the contract is signed by both parties, then you direct the IRA to sell the contract to another investor out there that sees the value of that contract.

Not only does he see the value, but he will pay you $5,000 to take over the contract so he can go close. He basically assigned the contract to another investor for a $5,000 fee. The account goes from $250 to $5,250 in one transaction. These are small numbers because it can be done on a very large scale. I’m sure you’ve seen some massive little flips like that before.

Going back to that book that the government released, they showed one guy. It was $4,000 or $5,000 he had in his IRA. After a few years, he had over $100 million inside of his IRA. It’s all legal and aboveboard.

Why are people afraid of these retirement plans? What is the biggest thing that they have fears about?

The biggest thing they have fears about is lack of knowledge. We go back to that having access to knowledge thing. A lot of people don’t even know these exist. First off, it’s amazing to me that they don’t even know that you can buy real estate inside your IRA. Once they start to buy real estate in their IRA, understandably, they get afraid that they’re going to do something accidentally wrong and it’s going to blow up the entire IRA.

As long as you have access to knowledge and people who can help you out through the process, that’s not much of a big concern. It’s relatively straightforward. You talked it over right now. You go out, identify the property, do the contract, pay for the property, have the IRA pay for it all, and then sell the property whenever you sell it. Life is good. You made your money. You don’t pay taxes on it.

Case in point, real life. Whenever I’m going to do a transaction and I’m not sure, it’s not a cookie-cutter that has already been approved or I already know Tim would tell me that’s okay. If it’s getting out of the box a little bit, I pick up the phone. He charges a little bit. We talk. He hardly ever tells me no.

He says, “Don’t do it like that. You need to do it like this.” He would go, “Glad I called?” The amount of money that I pay to check out with Tim to make sure that I’m staying in bounds and not tainting my retirement plan or getting out of bounds is stupid, especially given the amount of money that you can make doing these things.

Your retirement plans say most people got their money in there. They’re doing whatever the weenie heads at Wall Street are telling them to do. The weenie heads in Wall Street don’t even know your name and give a damn. You’re one of the billions of people. Move it over to a company like TaxFreeFuture.com into a self-directed retirement plan and then you get to say what happens. We covered real estate. Can you loan money to people like me who need to borrow money at 8%, 9%, 10% or more sometimes?

Absolutely. You can do hard money loans. Your retirement plan can make loans to other people. No problem whatsoever.

I came out with a book called The Art of Private Lending. I helped so many people move their retirement funds over to self-directed so they could start deciding to do what they wanted to do with it. I had talked to them about loaning the money to me. I have $26 million of private money.

On the first of the month, I’ll be writing checks to about 59 people and I’m going to be paying interest on $26 million. I talked about that in this book.

The book is not only how you can loan your own money, but if you’re a private real estate investor, this is how you talk to or appeal to people that have money and get them interested in loaning it to you so you can do your deals. It’s not rocket science, but like anything else, you’re going to get good at it. You got to spend a little time with it.

The weenie heads of Wall Street make money by managing people's money. If people manage their own money, they are going to lose money. Share on X

I’m not going to say to become a good private lender, you have to spend 10,000 hours because that would be bullshit, but you’re going to have to spend some time.

You got to take in some knowledge from somebody. Even then, on your first 1, 2, or 3 transactions, pay a consultant, Tim, Mitch or someone to look over your shoulder and say, “You’re doing it right or hold on a second. You might want to change a few things here. This is why.”

If you’re a real estate investor, it’s not about you. It’s about the deal. That’s what this book describes, “How do you structure a deal so a private guy will loan you their money? If you’re a guy that wants to lend money, how do you want to structure deals, so you don’t get hurt?” They’re both the same thing, just looking at it from right to left or left to right.

For the readers, stop and think. Let’s say you start off with an IRA with $5,000 and now you find a great opportunity for a lending deal. You find somebody else who is willing to loan you the money. You put those two together. Your nest egg of $5,000 that started off as $5,000 could build up to be pretty substantial in a very short time period.

You and I spent some time in this studio, talking about all these different ways that you could proliferate in your retirement plan. If you want to go to TaxFreeFuture.com and register there, you’ll get access to 30 video vignettes. They’re short and sweet, flipping on the light bulb as to, “You can do this. This is a little bit how.” It doesn’t go into great depth on it, but turning on those lights in all the rooms, “You can do this and that. You can do it like this. We know people that do it this other way.”

Start getting familiar with how much opportunity there is out there. I get to where I see opportunities. Every time I walk down the street, they’re coming at me because I know all the different ways you can structure these things.

Talk about if you don’t have much money in there, but you want to put it in your retirement. You want to put this asset in your retirement plan, but you’re going to have to borrow some money. Tell us how you do that. How does it borrow money?

It’s simple. It says, “Somebody, I want to borrow money. I got somebody right now. They’re looking to buy a property. They want to borrow $250,000. The property is about $1.5 million. They got about $1.25 million already inside their plan.” No big deal. They’re putting out feelers saying, “Who wants to loan me $250,000?”

There are some banks out there that will make the loans. They’re few and far between. There are not many. The big key is the loan has to be non-recourse. The IRA owner can’t give a personal guarantee, but other than that, life is good. The retirement plan can grow and borrow money.

That was the big key. It can borrow money. It just can’t guarantee. It has to be a collateral-only loan. I talked about I have $26 million that I owe to people. Every single penny of it is collateral-only. That’s how I sleep at night. I look at my private lenders. Before they come on and do their first transaction with me, I tell them, “I want to be perfectly clear.”

I look them right in the eyes. I say, “If you loan me this money, I have two rights every day of my life. I have the right to pay as agreed or walk you over my position in this property, whether that be I have the deed or sold it to someone and I have a note. I have the right any day I want to do that. If you don’t like my collateral over there for the amount of money you’re loaning, don’t do the deal.”

Some people will say, “That’s hard money to get.” It depends on how good your deal is. If your deal is solid, it makes perfect sense. They would rather you not pay because they would rather have the property instead. They would rather have the $250,000 house than the $75,000 they loan you. One thing that education does for a lot of people and has done for me, it helps us break through our limiting beliefs.

If you’re one of these people that thinks, “No one is going to loan me money,” I got news for you. It’s not about you at all. It’s about the deal. Charles Manson should have been able to get these kinds of loans from prison. Who cares how many people you’ve murdered?

It’s a $250,000 house and you only want $50,000 in the first-lien position. If you don’t pay me, I get $250,000. Manson could have gotten this loan from prison. He is way worse than anybody reading this right now. Did I make my point?

You made your point. That was a good point.

How long have you been doing this?

REIS 510 | Retirement Plans

Retirement Plans: If you are going to work with someone, make sure you work with somebody who exclusively deals in this area, not the Jack of all trades.


I’ve been doing this since the late ’90s. I can’t even count that high because I’m getting too old. It’s 20 or 30 years.

It’s what you do exclusively, right?

This is exclusively what I do.

That’s the one thing you always want when you’re seeking some advice. Make sure the guy you’re talking to, if you can, only exclusively deals in the area that you need help in. That’s all they do and that’s what he does.

I had a guy get on the phone call and he wanted me to set up some irrevocable trusts for asset protection. I used to do that stuff, but I don’t do that anymore. All I do is deal with retirement plans. That’s what I specialize in. It’s always hilarious to me whenever someone calls up and they said, “I talked to my attorney. This attorney evidently is a tax and estate planning genius. They work in car accidents too. If you want to get a divorce, they can do that as well too.” It’s hard enough for me to stay on top of retirement plans, much less all of these other topics. If you are going to work with someone, make sure you work with somebody who deals in this area exclusively, not somebody that is the jack of all trades.

How come people don’t know this stuff?

The weenie heads of Wall Street don’t want people to know about this because the weenie heads of Wall Street make money by managing people’s money. If people manage their own money, weenie heads are going to lose money. They’re going to get smaller.

If you’re self-directing your funds, they don’t get paid. I challenge everybody out there right now. The next time you get in your car and you’re driving through downtown or wherever you are, start looking on the tallest buildings and tell me what names are on them. They’re probably banks or insurance companies. A lot of them are banks. They don’t want you to know how to loan money either. You’re going to cut them out.

They don’t want you to know how to loan money, but why are those buildings so tall and have their name at the top of them? There’s a lot of money in a loan if you do it right, know how to loan the money right, and know the parameters and do’s and don’ts. I have people all the time who want to know, “I’m tired of living by the ticker tape. I’m tired of waking up every morning to see what I’m worth because you don’t know.”

There are the people out there, “I’m up 17% from last year in the stock market.” I said, “You sold your soul.” “No, I didn’t sell.” I said, “If you haven’t sold, you’re not up anything. You have the chance to be up 17%, but you got to sell. If you don’t sell because you can be down to zero tomorrow.” You can live in that.

The thing about a good loan is, if you make a good loan this morning at 8:00, it’s still a good loan 2 to 3 years down the road. If you have a 10 or 8-year loan, it’s still good. It’s the same loan. As a matter of fact, it might even be better because the collateral that you loaned against the real estate might have gone up hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last five years. They owe you less money now because it has been several years.

Your collateral versus the money that you have at risk, the downside keeps diminishing with every year if you make a good loan if economies go like they’re supposed to go over it. That’s get paid down gradually. A property appreciates gradually. That’s what you’re looking to do is getting one of those positions.

Tell me about an interesting case you’ve seen. Not a big player. I’m not looking for big numbers. I’m talking about an interesting move that someone did that’s an average Joe.

The biggest thing people fear is a lack of knowledge. Share on X

Average Joe is a simple one. I’ve seen some average Joes. They go out there and loan money to people. They get these car loans. They’re loaning them for $6,000 or $7,000 for used cars and making a 25% return on their money. A super low entry $6,000 or 7,000 and they’re getting a great return on their money. There are all sorts of things you can do out there with these retirement plans.

When people say, “Mitch, you’re suggesting that I go out there and start loaning money.” I don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars. Loan what you’ve got against something that’s of greater value that you can tie up. You got to get a handle on it. If you’re going to do integrity loans, then know your loans will be as good as the person that you’re guessing is going to pay you back.

I don’t like to do those kinds of loans. I like to do loans like, “Give me the title to the car when you pay it off. Give me a lean on that title. Give me the deed to that house until you pay me. Give me a first lien on that house. Give me something so you can’t just walk or run away from me and that I have the upper hand until you pay me.” That’s what I wanted.

If you only have $20, then loan it out to somebody and make them pay you back $30. Make sure you’re not a usurist. That’s another thing. If you have a retirement plan, does it matter what state you’re in if the plan is loaning out in that state? There are different usury amounts in different states. You have to watch your state code, right?

You got to watch your state code, but in most states, as long as the loan is for commercial purposes, then the usury laws typically do not apply. If it’s done for commercial purposes, life is good. By all means, check with your local council if you’re going to do those loans.

You want to know what your parameters are. When you say commercial use, that’s opposed to in my world. Commercial is if a person wants money on a property that they’re not going to live in. If they’re going to live in, it’s going to be their homestead, then that’s called a consumer loan. That’s the difference between commercial and consumer in my world. Are there any differences in some other?

It’s pretty much the exact same thing.

I want to go out on a limb here and you’re going to have to correct me if I’m wrong. Usually, with these retirement plans, you can’t invest in antique guitars or cars. You can’t do all this stuff. If you’ve set up an LLC and the retirement plan acquires an LLC and the LLC’s job is to buy antique guitars, refurbish and sell them, then all of a sudden, you figured out how to deal in antique guitars, even though technically, everyone in the world is going to tell you that a retirement plan can’t deal in antique guitars. Am I right or wrong?

You’re right. Let me tell you something. There’s this one company called TaxFreeFuture.com . They do these things called 401(k)s. With a 401(k), you can buy the antique car, antique guitar, Stradivarius violin, and whatever collectible you want. The collectibles rules don’t apply to Tax-Free Future’s 401(k) plans. We don’t have to jump through hoops to do anything interesting. We can just use the Tax-Free Future 401(k) to buy those collectibles and it’s no big deal.

If you’ve got something, you want that you have a passion for and you’re not sure how to do it, go to TaxFreeFuture.com  Register there with the micro-information, your name, phone number, and email address. I promise you. You’re not going to be getting a ton of phone calls beating you up every day about anything. We just want to have a line of communications to be able to call you back.

Get a personal one-on-one counsel with Tim and say, “This is what I’m thinking about doing. What’s the best entity to open so that I can best defer my taxes or live tax-free forever? What do you see? What can I do?” Let a professional tell you if you can or you can’t or if you’re going to do it, how it needs to be structured and why. You’ll probably find out almost anything you want to do. You can do short of illegal drugs.

We’re not going to bring up Charles Manson either right now.

REIS 510 | Retirement Plans

Retirement Plans: There are ways you can get the best of both worlds if you set up your IRA as a traditional account, to begin with.


Go to TaxFreeFuture.com and get a consultation with Tim.

We got a free book there too. You can download a book. It has all sorts of great information. Start learning the basics, so you know what questions to ask during the free consultation.

Go to 1000Houses.com/TFF. Over there, we’re going to have a chance for you to hook up with Tim. You’re going to get the free booklet. Whatever there is to offer is going to be over there and all the information you’ll need, phone numbers. You won’t need to write anything down here. You can go to TaxFreeFuture.com. You can find it all there too. The important part is to start. Even at the most modest level, start. You might find out if you get started that a whole other world is going to open up because that’s what happened to me.

Once upon a time, I went to a seminar for $3,000 from my chair for Friday evening, which was the welcome party, a Saturday and half a day Sunday. That didn’t count my plane ticket and hotel room in Downtown San Francisco, which wasn’t cheap. I walked out of that thing Saturday afternoon before it was halfway over. I said, “I didn’t want to hear anymore. I couldn’t take anymore.” I was drinking water from a fire hose. I couldn’t swallow anymore, but I knew exactly what I was going to do.

I went home and opened up my retirement plan. The bare minimum is about $250. Now, I have four of them. I promise you, 99.9% of the people reading this would be proud to own any of those four retirement plans. It changed my whole life. I didn’t even sit through the second half of it because I couldn’t take it anymore. I saw exactly I didn’t want the water to get muddy. I just went and then I said, “I’ll go back to the second half of this thing whenever I’m ready.”

A couple of years later, I was meeting people because of the circles I was running in now and the conversations that I was having with people. I learned more about the stuff beyond the seminar. There are the gurus up there. They’re teaching it, but they’re trying to sell you too. Out in the hallway, there are these conversations that go on about what happens, what you can’t do, and how it can work. Be sure you look at all the different angles. I find this fascinating. You’ve probably seen a lot of people use these vehicles to become financially independent at a young age. What’s the youngest?

$650 million at 26. That’s a rough life.

That’s enough to kill a 26-year-old.

We’re coming back to Charles Manson again.

It’s a danger if you give a 26-year-old $650 million, but it can be done. Did he start from zero?

Yes, he did.

Also, it’s not too late to get in the game. You see people in their 70s and 80s coming in.

Hop in the game and start getting financially secure. If you sit on the sidelines, everyone is going to have a great time without you. Share on X

That’s the thing. That’s one of the biggest limitations, so many people have. Those people in the 30s think, “I waited too long.” People in the 60s and 70s just think like what you’re talking about. Hop in the game and start getting financially secure. If you sit on the sidelines, everyone is going to have a great time without you. You hop in and might get bruised a little bit and all that stuff, but you’re going to find out how to play the game and then you’re going to start making some money, probably.

1000Houses.com/TFF or TaxFreeFuture.com. If you’re not sure about this, get over there and get a consultation. If you want to dip in for $16, go to 1000Houses.com and find this book, The Art of Private Lending. Maybe that will spark you to say, “I can be a lender. I’m comfortable now with the idea of lending. Let’s go open up my account and start lending.” That’s one tiny little angle. Be sure to see the little video vignettes that we did. We put a lot of time and effort into them. We tried to cover a lot of ground. It’s not super deep, but enough to let you know that there are opportunities in all kinds of places. It will blow your mind.

I know that I started my retirement plans with about $250 apiece. In every single one of them, I never put in my money until I needed a traditional retirement plan so I could start in a 401(k) where I could match myself and then invest $26,000. My company could match me. My wife could put up $26,000 or so and the company can match her. All in all, it was about $112,000. We got the right offer income because we figured our taxes.

That answered the question, “Why would anyone invest in a traditional IRA when there’s a Roth available?” Maybe we need to explain the difference between a traditional and Roth. I finally got wealthy enough to understand the answer. Another door opened with the time. It was like, “That’s why you would do it.” Tell us the difference between a Roth and a traditional IRA.

In the traditional, you get the tax deduction upfront. Whenever you put the money inside the retirement plan, you get the tax deduction. That’s always cool. With the Roth, you don’t get a tax deduction, but then whenever you take the money out, it comes out completely tax-free. There are ways you can get the best of both worlds.

You set up the thing as a traditional account, to begin with and then you slice and dice the asset. You move those pieces of the asset. You think you’re going to take off over to the Roth at a very low value. You’ve got your upfront tax deduction and yet you’re going to get the tax-free growth inside the Roth so you could do things right as well.

Tim taught me that. I have my 401(k). I opened it up with a Roth and IRA’s money. I broke off with the traditional money, paid some tax on it, and opened up a Roth and IRA’s vein. This is the same account. We’re just tracking two veins now. One at the end of the day when I take it out has no tax. One over here is going to get taxed at whatever the rate is when I pull it out. It’s fun stuff too because you can sit there and start to go, “This part of my portfolio is going to boom because it’s in this part of the town where they’re putting the river in and doing all this.” You say, “I better move this over to the Roth and IRA’s vein before it becomes worth a fortune.”

Whenever you do move it over, it’s down here. Later on, it goes off the screen. Move it whenever the price tag is very low on it.

Deciding on how to value those things, Tim is very helpful in that too. What are notes worth when you’ve got to figure out what the tax would be if you sell some notes and stuff? There are different opinions on what a note is worth. You can ask ten people about the same note. They’re all going to give you a different value.

We have to find a fair value or something that the case law represents is fair. We don’t want to be too far, saying it’s worth a whole lot or worth too little. You guys are going to be right down the middle, so you don’t get yourself in trouble. Anything I need to cover before we wrap it up? I could talk to you about this all day long.

I can’t think of anything right now because it’s such a vast subject that people just need to know one thing. We’ve got this wonderful tool that is tax-free or tax-deferred. The bottom line is you don’t pay current taxes on it and it can allow for all sorts of phenomenal growth. It has complete asset protection, so you got to wonder, “Why wouldn’t you be using this?”

The asset protective side of this is very hard. You have to screw up pretty badly for these things to become a target.

REIS 510 | Retirement Plans

Retirement Plans: You hop in and might get bruised a little bit and all that stuff, but you’re going to find out how to play the game, and then you’re going to start making some money, probably.


Also, the Bankruptcy Code specifically, in black and white, says, “These are something called exempt assets.” Even if heaven forbid you got to file bankruptcy, they’re generally speaking, “You cannot touch your IRA and 401(k).”

The whole point is, instead of trying to guess or take all this in, get with Tim. If you don’t even know the questions to ask, he will start asking you questions. He will figure out where you’re at and maybe a plan of attack. As he starts to explain more to you about your own personal situation, then you’ll be able to start to pick and choose, make choices, and decide. It’s a wonderful world to live in.

It makes you feel pretty good because you see people paying huge amounts of tax burdens and you think, “Once upon a time, I was on a webinar, podcast, or YouTube channel and I learned about this thing. I don’t have to pay all that money on everything anymore.” I know people that live completely 100% tax-deferred or tax-free. They won’t pay any tax in their lifetime. They might have to pay some if they die. They’re rare because not many people can do that. They started out from the beginning when they were young a long time ago and started getting educated. They know exactly what to do.

They’re building a tax-free future.

Check out those vignettes. Go to TaxFreeFuture.com or 1000Houses.com/TFF. Tim is not hard to find. If you go to any one of those links, you’ll find him. Have a conversation. The first conversation with someone, what does it cost him?

Zero. Not a single penny.

You want to meet Tim. Tim wants to meet you. He obviously feels like it’s worth the conversation to figure out where you’re at and see if you’re ready. There’s a reason why he does that because there isn’t anybody in the world that shouldn’t be ready, so the odds are way in his favor. If it’s not for you, there’s never any pressure. No one needs that.

I’m not going to start with a guest. Let’s put it that way.

Tim wants your business, but he won’t be pressuring you for your business. You’ll get to him when you’re ready, but we just need to know what we’re talking about. I would like to thank everybody for stopping by to get you some Tim Berry. Go to 1000Houses.com/TFF or TaxFreeFuture.com either way. I would also like to thank LiveComm for sponsoring this episode. If you don’t know who LiveComm is or what they do, it’s all about lead generation, mass texting, and tracking. It’s so affordable. You wouldn’t believe it.

Watch the video on the homepage and see how I have managed to work my average days on the market for the houses that I’m selling down to four days. Over the last 200 houses, I averaged four days on the market and I don’t ever put a sign in my front yard or anywhere. I use no signs to sell my houses. There’s not one. Check it out. There’s a little video on the homepage and you’ll start to open your mind with lead generation, mass texting, and some newer technology. What it can do for your business is simply amazing, LiveComm.com. Tim, thanks a bunch. I appreciate you.

Thank you, Mitch. Take care.

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About Tim Berry

REIS 510 | Retirement PlansI’ve been a tax attorney for over 20 years. Have helped thousands of people free up their retirement plan assets to invest in real estate. Am an real estate investor myself.





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