The Secrets To Getting Terms Of Business In A Seller’s Market With Ron Le Grand
Episode 439: The Secrets To Getting Terms Of Business In A Seller’s Market With Ron Le Grand
Getting terms in a seller’s market is a real art. Mitch Stephen shows an easier way by introducing us to real estate entrepreneur and chairman at Global Publishing Inc., Ron Le Grand. Here, he shares with us some secrets, hints, tips, and hacks to get the terms of business. He talks about seller financing, qualifying leads, and how best to approach your seller to have your best shot to get the terms. What is more, Ron then takes us to his webinar, highlighting the importance of finding a master who can help and guide you. Follow along as he shares more insights that can help you build your wealth the right way.
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I have the infamous, Ron Le Grand. This guy has launched more careers than NASA has launched spaceship test runs. He launched tons of careers including mine many moons ago. What’s going on exciting in your life these days, Ron?
I’ve got a lot going on. I’m still doing house deals and commercial deals. We are still in the publishing business and training people all over the world on how to buy and sell houses without using money or credit. My specialty now is the terms of business. Unlike most people come in on a wholesale and the rehab. I’ve done plenty of that but I favor the terms of business for a lot of reasons. I expect we’re going to discuss that on this show.
We’re going to be talking about how to get terms even in a seller’s market, which is a real art, but it gets a little easier when you know how to do it like everything else. We’re going to try to get some hints, tips and hacks on that. It’s a seller’s market. Real estate is hotter than a pistol. A lot of people give up on even trying to get to terms because they figure, “There’s no way.” Where do we start on this subject?
Let’s start with, let’s say you’re buying a junker. You’ve got to go to the right targets. You’ve got to go to where the junkers are and deal with the people who need to sell. It’s no different in the pretty house business. The mistake that a lot of people make is that they’re dealing with unqualified leads. They don’t have a script, they screw up the phone call and expect miraculous results. It’s the same thing. We find prospects, we prescreen them and then we let the sellers make us offers by asking them questions. We make the visit, get a contract and then we sell it on terms. We probably should define what the terms are, Mitch.
You’re in Texas so the terms in your states are simply either buy it with owner financing or buy it subject to and then sell it with owner financing. In any other state, I can buy it with owner financing. I can buy it subject to or I can lease it with an option to buy. In my case, I’m in Florida. I put tenant-buyers in the house because I don’t want to sell it. I want to have a tenant-buyer in there who’s giving me thousands of dollars of nonrefundable option deposit going toward their down payment when they buy and all our responsibility for the repairs goes to them. That’s my kind of tenant because I’ve had hundreds of the other kind where they call me if their toilet is plugged up. I don’t get any calls like that. These people move and frankly, most of them do, then they know that their deposit is forfeited and they lose it. We go and put another tenant-buyer in there and collect thousands of dollars more. We keep that going, keep the golden goose alive.
A lot of people are scared of Florida in owner financing because it’s a judicial state and it’s a little harder to get people out of the houses. Explain your angle on that.
Easy, don’t sell them, lease option them. First of all, I’d have to evict them if they didn’t pay, but here’s what people don’t get. Somebody gives me $20,000 down or more, they’re going to pay because if they don’t pay their rent, they lose that $20,000. That’s a different mindset than sticking somebody in there that can barely come up with the first month’s rent. I don’t have tenant problems because if I have tenant problems, they’ve got a lot to lose. We do have those cases sometimes where we have to work it out with them, but we worked it out with them.
I don’t want to see them lose it just because they can’t pay their rent. If I had to, I have to evict them. I haven’t evicted. I can’t even remember the last time I’ve evicted anybody. I don’t sell with owner financing in Florida because I don’t want to give up the property and I don’t want to kill the golden goose. If I did have to foreclose on it, it’s easy six months or more here in Florida. In where I live, you have to write a check for $3,000 to file a foreclosure. Unlike in Texas, they practically pay you. You’re in and out in a lot of a couple of months if you haven’t foreclosed in Texas.
In a perfect world, like 45 days, but it’s usually 90 days. There’s no perfect world, at least not in my office.
The thing is though even selling it with owner financing, you give up so much. Look at what all I get in terms of business that you don’t get any ugly house business. Number one, I get as big a check or bigger upfront than anybody gets wholesaling the house. Keep the golden goose alive. I get a monthly cashflow from the difference between their rent and whatever I’m paying for long-term. I get depreciation, appreciation and a big one is I get debt pay down.
When they move out, I get to do it again and pick up another big check. The goose keeps laying the golden eggs and the longer I’m in the house, the more money I make. It’s that simple. What I like about it is the residual income, frankly, more than anything else. That monthly income can easily be built to the point to where one community can get out of their job or their profession because they could easily overtake it. Now I don’t have to get up and go to work. You’ve got that residual income coming in, regardless of whether you’re sick, in Hawaii or even dead for that matter.
Also, COVID for that matter.
Everybody I talked to is doing a whole lot better in 2020 during COVID than they were pre-COVID. How about you?
I was surprised by our collections because we’re selling to owners the same thing with decent down payments. Our collection is almost better than it’s ever been. It doesn’t make sense.
I’m guessing, maybe people are afraid to move and they don’t want to have to go out in the COVID environment and find something of another place to live. That is a wild guess.Seventy-five percent of the market has a loan on it, about 25% doesn't. Click To Tweet
It might be right because the people are like, “I’m secure here. I know who I’m around. I don’t want to get out and go about.”
Plus they already have skin in the game. They put up a down payment.
That’s the real big one, plus these people are more likely to do improvements, which gets them in even financially deeper, which is a great thing. When was the last time your renter added a porch and put in a pool? Never.
I’ve had a few of those. If you tell them they could, they did it.
Let’s go back from the beginning. You’re looking for these potential properties that would consider seller financing. Are you looking for free and clear houses? What are you looking for?
All of the above. Seventy-five percent of the market has a loan on it and about 25% doesn’t. They’re both easy targets, but you got to have sellers that want to sell and do not have to have all our cash now. If they got to have all their cash, you’re not going to take terms. It’s a false assumption to assume that everybody’s got to have all of our cash now. That’s assuming they even got cash coming. In many houses I buy, I’m buying for the amount they owe. They don’t have anything coming. I’m making their payment. It’s not hard to get people to agree to let me make your payment for you because they don’t have any income in any way. They might ask for some equity, but they’re willing to give it up to get that relief as you well know many years as you’ve been at this.
In free and clear houses, there are a lot of reasons people will take terms on those. They don’t have that debt. That’s one motivation they don’t have, but they get an income stream, plus they get their house sold. They get to sell it quickly and easily. There’s no easier way to sell than sell to me because I make it easy. You can move when you want and leave what you want in the house. I’ll close now so you know you’re closed. No commission. I’ll pay your closing costs and all of that. There’s no way you’re going to sell it easier than that. We give them not full retail price, but it’s not about the price in the terms of business, it’s about the terms. Unlike yours, where you’ve got to buy it cheaply, we know. I don’t pay anybody top retail, but sometimes I’ll pay 90% of the value of the property with good terms.
You can pay over what a house is worth if you can get the terms that you want. There’s always a set of terms that can overcome the price.
You can, but that isn’t built in me. That would keep me awake at night.
I didn’t say it was a good idea.
I tell them, “We don’t pay more than what it’s worth.”
You learn to listen with a different set of ears when you’re talking to these people. You’re asking the questions. To the readers, it seems like one question, but to you, you’re listening for something completely different. Tell us about how you’re talking.
We’ll play. You’d be my seller and I’ll be the buyer. I’ll call you on the phone. First of all, you need to understand that our leads come from several sources. By the way, that’s a key right there because the more qualified the lead, the easier it is to get to an end result that you like. People who advertise online are the least qualified, but any seller we can get to call us ten times more valuable. We need to have a system where we get them to call us as well, plus we chase the ones online. I have a whole four virtual assistants that don’t do anything but call sellers all day for our students about $30,000 of them a month. We furnished any leads that they’ve furnished, but by far, the best leads are when a seller calls you.
When the seller calls, they fill out the property information sheet. That property information sheet then goes to the student or it goes up on their site and now the students got to make one closing call. I’m going to make that closing call to you. When the VA got that information, they point-blank asked the seller, “Would you consider allowing us to make your monthly payment until you’re paid off or making you a payment if it’s free and clear?” The seller either says yes or no. We got a yes lead and we got a no lead. I’m on a call back about 25% of them were yes lead. We call them all as two different scripts, but I don’t have time to go into the notes and that script now. Let’s do the yes one. I’m calling you on the phone. “Mitch, this is Ron. You talked to my assistant yesterday about the house you have for sale and I got all the information here. I don’t need to go through all that again. Have you got a minute to talk?”
“I surely do.”
“You indicated that you might consider, I was making the payment until that would get the house paid off. Is that correct?”
“Yes, sir. That’s correct.”
“I’ve only got a couple of questions for you and that’ll determine whether we need to meet or not. If we can agree on the terms and you know I’m going to pay the closing cost and there isn’t any commission. I’ll close whenever you’re ready and leave whatever you want. You don’t have to be out the day we close either. That’s big for some people. If we can agree upon the terms, what is the least to take for house, Mitch?”
“I have about $15,000 worth of equity plus or minus. I’d like to get some of that.”
“What is the least you could take?”
“I’d like to get the whole $15,000. It’s worth it.”
I don’t know what your house is worth when I’m calling you because the VA’s asked what they want and they ask them what they think it is worth. Let’s say your house is worth $250,000 and you’re asking $240,000 and then you’re asking for $210,000. Let’s try it again. “Mitch, I see you’re asking $240,000. What’s the least you can take if we can agree upon the terms?”
“Can you give me like $230,000? Give me $20,000 so I can get where I’m going.”
“I’d have to take a look at the house before I tell you what I can give you. You’re going in the right direction. Is that the best you can do?”
“I need to get that $20,000 to do some things I need to.”
“We usually buy with nothing down. You’re telling me you have to have $20,000 down to sell?”
“I don’t suppose I have to have anything, but that’s what I’m looking for.”
“How close to nothing can you get? Keep in mind, I’m going to pay the closing costs. You don’t have to come to closing with a dime.”
“Can you at least give me $15,000 of that?”
“I don’t know until I see your house. Let’s wait until I come out, take a look at it and we’ll get that ironed out while I’m there or we won’t, but you’ll know before I leave.”The more qualified the lead, the easier it is to get to an end result that you like. Click To Tweet
“I’m not going to be able to keep making the payments anyway. It’s either take my chances on you or screw up.”
“Are you the only owner of the house, Mitch?”
“Is there no wife hanging around?”
“Nobody else needs to sign?”
“What time would you like for me to come out?”
“The sooner, the better. Tomorrow or today.”
“If I come out to your house and we agree upon the terms, are you ready to sell your house and get some paperwork done while I’m there?”
“I’ll see you tomorrow then.” Let me ask you a question. Who made whom an offer?
I made you an offer.
You did. Now, I’ve got to come to your house and decide whether I like your offer or not.
I know you’re not going to like it. You’re going to pick this house apart.
You’ve given me enough information to know I want to go to your house. I know you will sell with owner financing. I know you want $15,000. I also know I’m probably going to have to give you a down payment. You will be shocked at how many people. When we say we buy with nothing down. They say okay and you’ll be shocked.
That’s a keyword right there. We usually buy with nothing down and then shut up.
I put shut up right in the script.
I learned well from you, Ron.
The point is we bring them in, a VA’s called them, we make one closing call, they’re either in or out and most of them are out, but we’re only dealing with the minority houses that one wants to buy in a month. Remember, I’m buying cashflow machines. I’m not going to buy and sell a house, pick up a check for $10,000 and keep on doing it. That’s the problem with the wholesaling business. I’ve got to keep on doing it, but short-term capital gains where I’m going to get long-term capital gains half of the taxes.
It’s all pre-screened, deal with the ones who want to deal with us, get a contract, and then put it on the market to lease options, tenant-buyers in my case, which is a huge market. Seventy-percent of the market cannot qualify for a loan. I’m appealing to them and whatever they need to fix to get a loan, they’ve got plenty of time to fix it. I’ll give them a couple of years if they want it, they usually do. Whatever it is, credit or debt ratio. The truth is they live in the house for a while. Do you want to know what percent of my tenant-buyers buy?
You’re close, it’s 10%.
The thing about it is they’re inherently flawed, to begin with. They haven’t been able to straighten their act out or for whatever reason, they don’t fit into the traditional box and they’re never going to fit. Even if they say they are going to, they probably won’t.
The truth is they have to take action on their own because I don’t do anything for them unless they asked me to. Sometimes they live in the house and figure they can’t afford it. Sometimes it gets tired of it. Sometimes they get divorced, sick or transferred and all those things, add up to about only 10% of them go by. I give them plenty of time and anything that they need to be fixed, they can fix within the time I’d give them. Especially credit, you know as well as I do. In six months, I can raise your credit score 100 points if that’s their only problem. It’s up to them to fix the problem. I don’t babysit them. I don’t care if they buy or not. However, look at the public service that we’re providing to them.
We’re giving them a pathway to homeownership, but again, I’m not going to do it all for them. I’ll help them any way I can. Here’s a question I get a lot. “What happens to that deposit I got?” The answer is the day I got it is the day I keep it. I don’t have to bring it to closing. I’m not a real estate agent holding somebody else’s money. It’s my money. We close with an attorney. They sign off in blood that that deposit is nonrefundable, but it does go toward their down payment and lowers their purchase price.
When closing does happen, all they do is show a credit on the closing statement. I don’t have to bring the money to closing. Those deposits are a substantial amount of our client’s income from real estate. They’re akin to rehabbing a house or wholesaling a house. That’s not the way I’ve probably rehabbed at least a thousand houses in wholesale more and turn to business is much greater. It only took me 25 years to find that out.
You make wholesalers sick to their stomach when you point out, “I’m getting down payments sometimes bigger than your wholesale fee. I’ve got 360 months, or in your case forever, to collect the $500 or $600 positive cashflow.”
I can’t think of a time when my down payment wasn’t bigger than an average wholesale check. Sometimes it’s bigger than a retail check coming out after you rehab it and sell it for cash and went through all that stuff.
What’s your opinion of the average wholesale check?This country is full of greater fools that have grossly overpaid for properties out there. Click To Tweet
Give or take $10,000.
I was going to say $7,000 to $10,000. There are a lot of them that are only $2,000 and $3,000 because they get to the end of their rope.
Let me make a tip-off to all your readers now. You better read this because you’re in the most rabid market to sell junk I’ve ever seen in my life. This country is full of greater fools that have grossly overpaid for properties out there. I think they’re coming from the television shows. They’re getting their training from the school of hard knocks, the same place Mitch and I got ours. It was ugly, expensive training, and they are grossly overpaying. I don’t know what they’re thinking. Take advantage of this market. The next time you get ready to wholesale a house, you would establish your price, add $10,000 to that price and you will get it.
You’ve got a webinar coming up. To sign up for it and to learn more about it, you can go to 1000Houses.com/getterms. It’s all about how to approach your seller so that you can find out and have your best shot to get terms. Tell us about that webinar.
That’s the whole process step by step on what do we do. I take questions at the end, but that’s what it is. It’s an hour and a half webinar. An hour and ten minutes of its actual training and the rest of it are questions. It’s what I do. Simplify so people can understand where the money comes from, how we find buyers, how we find sellers. There’s no easier house to sell than the one you’re putting the lease option tenant-buyer in with owner financing because you’ve got 70% of the market to yourself. It’s not about finding buyers, it’s finding the ones with the most money, as you well know. It’s all about, “Here’s what we do. Here’s how you can do it. Here’s what it’s worth to you.”
This education pales in comparison to what you can make. A lot of people will go, “Does this stuff work?” I’ve been doing it for many years. You’ve been doing it for probably twice that. It’s not like, “Does it work?” That’s not the issue. The question is, “Can you master the art of it?” The fastest way to master the art of anything is to get with a master, shut up and listen to him.
In my opinion, in my experience, if anybody trying to start a business or buy a business is foolish if they don’t get help from somebody that’s already done that and been there because if they don’t, their chances of success are extremely slim. I don’t care what that business is, but people are afraid to ask for help, especially as men. It’s testosterone, we can’t help it.
I went it the hard way just like you did. Back in our day, the information wasn’t readily available. There were still some guys out there, Jimmy Napier and the old-timers. Dave Del Dotto and all those guys. Even listening to them opened my mind a lot, but it wasn’t that easy to get in front of those guys as it is now.
I listened to all of them. I bought everything I could get my hands on. Sometimes they even took the cellophane off of it, but there was no system. It’s never been easier to do this because everything is already in place. All you’ve got to do a step and it’s all done for you. It’s all automated. That took years to get to that point. In my world, all you’ve got to do is make decisions, get out of your own way, and let other people do all the little grunt work that needs to be done. I don’t spend three hours a month in real estate, to be honest with you. That doesn’t mean I don’t do it. It means that I don’t do the stuff I used to do because it’s all delegated out. Frankly, all that stuff is already in place now. It’s never been easier. One of my main messages is The Less I Do, the More I Make. I’ve even got a book on Amazon with that title. It did take a long time to learn that lesson.
It took me several, and then in the last years, I finally mastered it. You’ve got to grow up in your mind and quit thinking it’s about you all the time and that you’re the only one who can do anything. You would be proud of me, Ron. I have not seen the last 300 houses I bought and I have not seen or ask the people that bought my house. I’ve got to tell you a short story. I got pulled over for speeding. The Texas DPS guy came out and I have to present my driver’s license and my concealed handgun license at the same time by law. I handed them both to him. He said, “Do you have a gun?” I said, “I have three.”
He said, “Are they loaded?” I said, “Yes.” He goes, “Where are they?” I said, “One is in the console. I think the other two are under the backseat of my truck.” He goes, “You think?” I said, “Yes. I’m not sure if they’re there or at home.” He goes, “You’ve got two loaded guns and you’re not sure where they’re at?” I said, “It gets way worse than that.” He looks at me like, “It gets worse than that does it?” I said, “Yes. I own 300 houses. I can’t tell you where any of them are.” He let me go. He goes, “I can’t tell you where one of them is.”
I bought many houses here in Jacksonville where I live. I can’t remember why I remember many house numbers. It’s crazy. If I want to go someplace, I think of my house I own there and that gets me close to where I want to go. It’s hard for people to believe, but I quit counting to 3,000 houses at least many years ago. It doesn’t matter anymore.
I want you to not go through what Ron and I had to do. I went to La Calle U. It costs more money. That college is ruthless. It will take everything you have and spit on you. There’s no encouragement. No one is helping you off the ground or dusting you off. You don’t have to go through that. Go to 1000Houses.com/getterms, check out the webinar, get on it. I’m going to be helping out with it. We’re going to put it all together here in short order, and it will be ready to go. I launched my career listening to this man right here. It put me light years ahead of where I would have been if I didn’t.
At that time I thought it was a lot of money because I didn’t have any money, but it was the best money I ever spent because it shortcuts all the bullshit. It got me where I needed to go. When you’re young in the business, talking to someone like Ron, the revelations come fast and many. As you get older and older in the business, you go to a three-day boot camp and you’re trying to find one nugget, something you don’t know, but when you don’t know anything, the revelations come fast. His job is to put it in a system so you don’t get overwhelmed because the information will be like drinking from a fire hose if you’re starting out. You don’t have to be starting out to do this because there are a lot of people now who have hit plateaus. The market is not the same as it was many years ago. You’ve got to change what you’re doing. I’ve been working for many years.
If you’re out there and your whole business is the ugly house business, you owe it to yourself to investigate the other side. I’m not saying don’t do what you’re doing, you’ve got to keep cashflow coming, but termed business is so much more profitable than junker business. I’ve done them all. Besides, you’re building wealth. You’re not just working and giving the government all your money. That’s probably more important than anything else I can think of because sooner or later you’re going to be as old as me.
Here is an interesting question and something that you need to point out. A lot of people think when you’re in this business, that you have to fix everything up. Are you fixing everything up?
I don’t fix anything up. Most of the houses are in excellent condition. If they’re not, we sell them like they are and let the tenant-buyer do the work and you can discount the price a little, which we already raised.
Read to that magic, mark it up. Don’t fix and owner finance is someone for a great margin. Watch them go over budget, fixing up your collateral.
It’s going to work correctly. You do that on uglier houses, don’t you?
I do it sometimes, but I don’t do it all the time.
One of my favorite exit strategies, people are glad to do a little bit of work if you give them a reason to do it. Remember, all of my buyers cannot qualify at the bank. You’ve got all these people to yourself and it’s not about finding houses but finding enough houses to display your people once you start building your buyers list, which we dropped right in your lap.
Incidentally, the COVID event has caused more people that used to be able to get a loan not to be able to get a loan now. That pond with COVID has got huge.
Think about this because half the country is worried about what’s going to happen in a democratic society. What if another recession comes? Real estate investors love that because we run toward the recession, not away from it. Recession creates anxiety with sellers. It makes it easy to buy and that creates more buyers that need a place to live. The truth is there is never going to be a city where people are selling houses and other people aren’t buying them, recession or no. When recession comes, as long as you operate without credit, I will not allow any of my clients to go down to the bank and borrow money, guaranteed debt. That is the number one biggest mistake they can make. Everything we buy is nonrecourse and no personal guarantee.
Therefore, the worst case is we lose a house that we don’t have anything invested in and have already made money on. It’s not on our credit report. Nobody’s going to come after us. That’s all part of the training. That’s a huge mistake people are making. I go down there and get asshole deep in depth, things go wrong and here they are on the neck wound up bankruptcy. That takes years to clean up that mess. How do you think I learned not to do that? The same way they’re learning.
I owe about $26 million. I’ve got to make a payment to on the first. People say, “How do you sleep at night?” I said, “It’s all nonrecourse collateral only money.” I promised my private lenders two things. One is I have the right to pay as agreed, or I have the right to walk you my position on this property. I didn’t say I give you the property because I might’ve sold it on a note or something. The only thing I can give you is my position. As long as I can do one of those two things, my promise is that you will never have to sue me. If I can’t or don’t want to make the payment on that house, I’m going to walk the paperwork over to you and you will never have to go to court with me. That being said, in case readers may want to loan us money. It never happens because the margins and the fixes are too easy for us. We know how to fix this problem.
Even in a recession, people always have to have a place to live. The more they lose their houses, the more only to move into others’ houses.
I was buying a house the day in the recession until I scared myself. I was selling a house a day. I freaked myself out. I got in a panic and I stopped. The next time I won’t stop, but you grow up.
You do and learn a lot along the way. Getting into the world with nonrecourse is the way you set yourself up to where you cannot lose. They can’t come after you for debt because it’s not your debt. I have to pound that point into people. It does not show on your credit report. It does not even report on your financial statement because it’s not your debt if you don’t personally guarantee that note. That’s a no-no in our world.
Is there anything you want to say before we wrap it up? Did I cover things well enough for you or we’ve got some more we need to talk about?
We could talk for days and don’t shut up.People are glad to do a little bit of work if you give them a reason to do it. Click To Tweet
That’s why I’m asking, was there something you wanted to put in? I know we can talk for a week and never even stop.
We live in a great society here now. It kills me when I see people sitting around, whining, bellyaching, and bitching about stuff. Honestly, it’s such an easy thing to make a decision, find something you like and move toward that direction, and keep going toward that direction. The next thing you look back and you’re okay. Don’t take long to get financially free in the real estate business. That’s one thing I like about it. I’ll tell you what else I like about it. It’s a high transaction business. Our overhead is almost nothing and yet we get these big checks, $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 a note. There are not many businesses that you can do that in. I’ve had six restaurants and I have yet to figure out how to sell a steak for $20,000. The keyword is had six restaurants.
You’re a glutton for punishment. I had one and I was done. Ron, as always, it’s an honor to have you on the show. I know you get tired of hearing this stuff, but you’ve changed a lot of lives and you changed mine.
I never get tired of hearing that.
I’d like to thank all the readers out there for stopping by to get you some Ron Le Grand. We’re out of here.
Thank you, sir. I’ll see you soon.
- Ron Le Grand
- The Less I Do, the More I Make
About Ron Le Grand
Master the art of buying and selling real estate without using your money or credit with help from Ron Le Grand, a real estate expert. Backed by many decades of experience, Ron has been teaching longer than most agents in the industry. As an added bonus, you learn nearly every detail from Ron himself!